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  #21  
Old 4th August 2019, 04:39 PM
marty marty is offline
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Originally Posted by big paul View Post
marty it is defiantly the way it is stored and it only happens with 120 film and usually near the end of the sell by date or older ,if the film has been through a summers and a winter,with all the temperature changes and the film has some moisture in it and this with the backing paper causes this to happen .I now will only buy ten or twenty rolls of 120 at a time ,unless I am going to shoot a lot in a short time .but 35mm don't seem to have this problem and I don't mind buying a load of that film . I don't have the use of a fridge and keep my film in a box under my enlarger table on the floor ,its the coldest place in my darkroom . I had a similar problem once, i loaded up some 5x4 film in a slightly damp developing tank so I could develop it the next day ,after I had developed the film and hung it up to dry I notest the same blotchy pattern on the negs ,so I would guess that the worm night and damp developing tank produced moisture that stuck to the film ,the film was fomapan sheet film.
Hello, Paul. the more I think about it the more I'm convincing this might be the right answer. I never had a problem with any 135 and definetely I' ve shot more of this than 120. Then I haven't shot 120 in a long while so I will check my e-mail history to track down when I actually purchased these films. The second one is in the camera and I will see what happens...I might indeed have a problem with storage on my part that I'm not aware of. The expiration of the the two rolls date is nigh, next October.

M.
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  #22  
Old 5th August 2019, 12:03 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Originally Posted by big paul View Post
marty it is defiantly the way it is stored and it only happens with 120 film and usually near the end of the sell by date or older...
The negs of mine that I've mentioned were on 35mm film, so it does appear to happen on other formats, rather than just 120 film.

Terry S
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  #23  
Old 5th August 2019, 12:32 PM
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Rob Archer Rob Archer is online now
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I've been following this with interest as I've recently had a similar problem with 2 rolls of Rollei Retro 80s. Both films were fresh (expiry 8/21) and had been stored in a fridge. The mid-tones areas in the sky were badly mottled. I think I can still use them as I planned to make lith prints which would hopefully mask the 'blobbiness'. There's no visible problem in the textured areas of the images. I had a similar problem a few years ago with a roll of PanF+ and I put it down to bad technique but couldn't work out exactly why. I'm now starting to suspect contamination from wetting agent. I'm going to thoroughly wash all my tanks and reels and try wetting agent in a separate container in future.
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Old 5th August 2019, 02:03 PM
marty marty is offline
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Hello. I made further investigation. So looks like I've been sitting on these films for two years and a half, according to my records I purchased three of them February 2017. The first one I exposed in September of the same year does not show this problem. Now I've always, maybe naively, thought that using a film within the expiration date was a safe and sound procedure. I've always stored my unexposed films in a box in the upper cupboard of my darkroom (well away from any chemical), so dark and relatively fresh with little temperature fluctuation, although usually not for such a long time. I have to deduct that 120 rolls are more delicate than 135, with which I never had a so bad problem. Rob's experience, even if with a different brand, shows that mottling is lurking behind a corner even with a fresh film and also brings back on top the WA hypothesis. The plot thickens ...So I definetely will also carefully wash my reels with a brush and start doing the WA bath in a separate container.
M.
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  #25  
Old 5th August 2019, 02:09 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Archer View Post
I've been following this with interest as I've recently had a similar problem with 2 rolls of Rollei Retro 80s. Both films were fresh (expiry 8/21) and had been stored in a fridge. The mid-tones areas in the sky were badly mottled. I think I can still use them as I planned to make lith prints which would hopefully mask the 'blobbiness'. There's no visible problem in the textured areas of the images. I had a similar problem a few years ago with a roll of PanF+ and I put it down to bad technique but couldn't work out exactly why. I'm now starting to suspect contamination from wetting agent. I'm going to thoroughly wash all my tanks and reels and try wetting agent in a separate container in future.


I had a problem with Rollei Retro 80 35mm which was never really resolved. There was a general fogging across most of the frames on some films. Discussion at the time lead to the conclusion that this film should be handled in darkness to avoid fogging by light entering the edge of the film. This is one that is coated on a polyester base, and apparently prone to an effect described as ‘light-piping’. I haven’t used much of it since, but the remainder of the batch were loaded and unloaded in a changing bag. I don’t recall any further problem with it, but I never bought any more, or tried it in 120.
Alex.


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  #26  
Old 6th August 2019, 11:48 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
...but it looks like reticulation.
I've just discovered a roll of processed 120 Delta 100 that got washed under the hot tap in error, some years ago. It was not kept in a negative sleeve and is creased and grubby.
The effect is unmistakable. To the naked eye it looks a bit like coarse ground glass. On my old condenser enlarger it looked like pebbles on a beach. I never tried it on my diffusion lightsource (Ilford 500), which is a shame because the less-extreme texture might be quite attractive.

Jonathan
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  #27  
Old 9th August 2019, 04:20 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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I've experienced reticulation once, on 35mm Tri-X in the 1980's.
Left the film washing under a running mixer tap, and on returning a few minutes later the water was really hot. The appearance is very coarse and very distinctive, as the emulsion is basically cooked off the film base, then cools and contracts. Supposedly sudden severe changes in Ph can do it, but I'd bet thermal shock was the most common cause.

Mottled film- only ever seen it on outdated 120, and shows as blotching of even toned areas. Personally convinced it's some reaction to the backing paper. Most recently saw it on some 2 year out-of date PanF. It had been frozen, then moved to cold storage. I ended up binning 7 rolls out of a brick of 10 as the film couldn't be trusted. On reflection, I might only ever have had this with PanF- as this has been my most used roll film for years.

Nowadays with film I buy less, but more often. Once upon a time I might have 40 or 50 mixed 120, plus assorted 35mm and 5x4 in the freezer. Now I keep as much film as I might shoot over a busy week- Ag deliver so quickly I order when my stock is low, and it's here in 2-3 days. Film always fresh, and processed immediately.
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  #28  
Old 26th September 2019, 04:50 PM
marty marty is offline
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Hello, everybody. I developed the other roll of the same age and, as to be expected, is affected too by this annoying problem. The prints I've made show what was already evident examining the negatives under the loupe, skies and uniform areas are spotted and streaked. I changed,without much hope, my wetting agent routine doing it outside the tank in another container but, obviously, this wasn't the culprit although there seems to be an improvement in film cleanliness. I inspected the backing paper without finding anything wrong or even suspicious. All that said I'm almost convinced it's film age, even if it was technically still within the expiration date (next October). I have a slighty exipred roll of Fomapan that, just out of curiosity, I might expose and process to have a comparison. After that I will definitely buy a fresh roll of Delta to have a certain confirmation.

Cheers, M.
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  #29  
Old 26th September 2019, 05:32 PM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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Mitch, I followed through to your blog and read the post about wetting agent = very interesting read!

It so happens, that I have been printing up an old negative this week and have exactly the same marks in the sky area that is being talked about. It might explain why I never printed that neg / film up at the time. Saying that I am going to check the rest of the film, especially any negs that have sky areas on, to see if it's apparent on them as well, which I suspect it will.

But the question I have, before I try it, is if I rewash the separate lengths of negatives that have this mottling in the sky area, will it disappear after a further wash or is it there permanently now?

Terry S

Hi Terry, have just seen this.
Your question is a very good one I have not tried to do a second wash as I believe it is permanent.
I understand your thinking in that if the wash is last you should be able to correct it. It is contamination at the point of development the tell is more than usual bubbles in the developing tank when you come to pour it out the developer.
It has happened to me since the discovery of the wetting agent. In the later case it has turned out to be the developer it's self and the way I agitate the tank. If I get to enthusiastic with the agitation the mottling can occur and only happens with certain developers.
If this happens I embrace the error as creative licence in other words go with the flow
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