Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Colour Work > Colour printing techniques

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th March 2023, 08:42 PM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,335
Default End of RA4 Printing for me

Some may recall a while back I had a problem with a form of dermatitis caused by RA4 developer or bleach it was never really decided which caused it. Then suddenly a couple of years, possibly three it cleared up. So I went back to printing but wearing a vinyl glove on my right hand.

Well it has started again with a vengeance on my right arm, and the back of my neck. Thankfully not my hands. So sadly I am going to have to give up colour printing.
There does not seem to be a problem with C41 chemicals only RA4.

I have been clearing out my store of Fuji chemistry (developer) and Bleach/fix (Kodak) There is quite a bit so, I will have to dispose of it via the council unless anyone wants to call and collect it from me. The packing box it came in has been disposed of and the bottles are too flimsy to send. In any case it would have to travel by courier, because I cannot send it by post. I don't want anything for the chemicals, just for them to be put to good use.

There is also a quantity of paper. 2 full 10x12 sealed boxes of 50 sheets, 1 part box of 10x12 and one part box of 12 x16 all Fuji lustre I will sell these on, but make me an offer around 70 if you would like them (these can be posted). Reply by Pm if you are interested. ( I live about 8 miles due west of the City of Durham.)

B&W will be what I will be doing from now on.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 7th March 2023, 11:06 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,983
Default

Sorry to hear that John. It just seem strange that it should have affected areas of your body that make no contact with the chemicals whatsoever. I am assuming that your right arm is protected by clothing this time of year and the back of the neck can be covered to quite an extent by say a polo-neck sweater

Have the doc or allergy tests established a link with the RA4 chemicals?

Anyway, just some thoughts on my part but only you know best what's right for you

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 8th March 2023, 07:41 AM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,335
Default Ra4

Thanks Mike.
Yes the first time it erupted they asked me to check what I eat and drink and did I have anything in the house that may cause a reaction. I don't have any allergies with food. At the time all I could think of apart from the normal cleaning liquids which I had used for more years than colour chemicals was the photographic types and in particular RA4. They investigated what was contained in the recipe's and although the actual smell had been virtually eliminated there is still traces in the air when small quantities evaporate which could be the cause.

In short it isn't debilitating just irritatingly itchy.

In short, I don't know for certain, but the last outbreak showed improvement within couple of days and in a month it was clear after I stopped using RA4.

Perhaps if I was able to have an extractor fan in the room I use as a darkroom it may be better but I cannot simply just fit one to exit out of the house, that just isn't practical. (apart from the expense.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 8th March 2023, 01:59 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 761
Default

That's bad news John. Commiserations.

My darkroom is the box room. At one end of the large window it has a small opening window with a hopper window above.
Blackout is two 2"x1" frames with black out material pinned in place.
I am thinking about leaving the hopper window open and fitting a small extractor into one of my wooden blackout frames.

A couple of years ago on one forum, possibly here, I mentioned an article in a 1950s British Journal of Photography about contact dermatitis.
It said for most of their working lives lots of photographers never used gloves or tongs for developing. Even when enlightened about such chemicals as Metol and the like they were of the opinion that as they had not had any reaction they must be immune. Sad thing was after many years of getting away with it they were very surprised when the dermatitis flared up.
For over ten years I dipped my hands in the developer, stop fix etc.
but after reading the article my next investment was a couple of sets of tongs.
Sad thing was, after stressing that the delay could be for many years before the surprise result, people quite happily replied saying they had been developing prints with bare hands all their lives, just like washing the dishes and they were alright. Not realising or plain ignoring what they might have in store for them around the corner.

Good Luck John. Get well soon.
__________________
It will all be over by Christmas.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 8th March 2023, 04:22 PM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,335
Default Chemical Disposal

Anticipating that no one will be able to call and collect it I spoke to the council and yes they well take it but I have to get a Hazardous Waste permit from them. But will take no more than 2 litres at one time per day. This means I will have to get several permits because with the Beach plus developer there will be around 4-5 litres. No wonder there is so much fly tipping.
At least the permits are free!

At least I will be able to use the fixer liquid concentrate for my film development and B&W printing which would have meant quite a bit more to get rid of.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18th March 2023, 09:18 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albans UK/Agde France
Posts: 1,077
Default

Commiserations, John.
Long, long ago I managed a small group of technicians, one of whom developed a reaction to photo-chemistry. It became so serious that the lady concerned had to leave the industry. Basically, she reacted even to the smell of E2/3 colour developer, getting immune-response symptoms everywhere. I kept myself informed about this in the years that followed.
Eastman Kodak were very helpful and explained that their colour developing agents were constantly under review and were developed (sorry about the pun) with allergies in mind. I assume that CD2/3 were a result of this research. CD3 has the longest name I ever encountered: Methanesulfonamide, N-[2-[(4-amino-3-methylphenyl)ethylamino]ethyl]-, sulfate (2:3). You can't even pronounce it in one breath. And that doesn't even mention the toluene bit.
I find it surprising that paraphenylene diamine (the forerunner of CD2/3) is still used in cosmetic hair colouring products. I heard the story recently that a young woman had to leave the hairdressing business because of her allergy, even though she no longer handled the product.
I don't think that fresh bleach was ever under suspicion but carryover of developer will inevitably compromise it for sensitive folk.

Last edited by JOReynolds; 18th March 2023 at 09:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18th March 2023, 11:46 AM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,335
Default

Well it is now 12 days since I cleaned out my darkroom of my colour developer/bleach and the problem on my arms and back have practically cleared up.
The council still haven't been to collect any so it is still bottled in the outside away from the house.

As far as I know the C41 developer does not affect me and I would be loath to have to chuck that as well because I still have some film both colour and XP2 to eventually develop.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd July 2023, 07:09 AM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,335
Default Resumption of colour printing.

When I posted back in March this year I was going to have to give up colour printing because of a possible allergy to colour chemicals I thought that was it, and stuck with B&W, but the allergy didn't go away entirely.

I then posted another question about about the working differences between Citric acid stop bath and Acetic acid stop baths. Reading the replies I decided to change and go for the non smelly Citric variety to see if that was as effective and found there was no detectable difference.

About a couple of weeks later, all traces of the skin rashes whatever you may like to call them, had cleared up. As a trial I went back to see what happened with RA4 printing using Citric acid stop bath instead of Acetic and so far the irritation has not returned. It maybe, I was mis-diagnosing the cause and it was not the RA4 chemicals but the stop bath which was the cause of the problem. A month after restarting the colour printing cycle there has been no re-appearance of the rash.

I always intended to dispose of the RA4 kit via the local recycling centre but never got around to it and still have at least 6 months supply before I need to buy again.

Last edited by John King; 2nd July 2023 at 07:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd July 2023, 08:36 AM
B&W Neil's Avatar
B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West Cornwall
Posts: 4,265
Default

John,

That's great news and it's good you are going to carry on with colour printing.

I have been using a citric stop for a long while now for BW and some alternitive work (not colour though) and found it be fine, smells better too. The only issue I have had is the amount of work you can put through, I have found it needs watching.


Neil
__________________
"The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance." Aristotle

Neil Souch
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2nd July 2023, 10:36 AM
Reginald S's Avatar
Reginald S Reginald S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Germany
Posts: 328
Default

Here, the same, Neil,

and I also have seen debris building soon in my tray.
Better let's say darkroom space invaders because of it's biological nature

Being a low cost product if buying kilogrammwise, there is nothing to say against quicker substituting the Citric than done before with Acetic.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RA4 Printing John King New products and offers 9 30th September 2022 10:55 AM
What are you printing, right now! MartyNL Darkroom 141 24th January 2022 03:46 PM
about printing, RMaydana Darkroom 3 8th February 2016 05:17 PM
Printing John King Darkroom 16 30th April 2015 09:12 PM
printing tonytrot Monochrome printing techniques 7 11th November 2011 01:13 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.