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  #11  
Old 11th April 2022, 07:27 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyNL View Post
This may seem far fetched Terry, but when you brew your own developers, have you noticed any increase in development activity, as you reach the end of the bottle?

Does the mixture become 'heavier' towards the bottom of the container during storage?

Do you mix the developer thoroughly before each use?

Marty, this is not at all far-fetched. It is well documented that D76/ID11 increases in activity after extended storage, in particular if kept in partially-filled bottles. Ian Grant alerted me to this here some time ago (not sure I can find that post again, however). Since then I always make sure to store it in full bottles.

EDIT: found the thread here http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ad.php?t=12389


Terry - this may be what is at work here, if indeed that D76 of yours spent some time in a half-empty bottle.

Hope this helps....
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Last edited by Svend; 11th April 2022 at 07:43 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11th April 2022, 11:31 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Marty, this is not at all far-fetched. It is well documented that D76/ID11 increases in activity after extended storage, in particular if kept in partially-filled bottles. Ian Grant alerted me to this here some time ago (not sure I can find that post again, however). Since then I always make sure to store it in full bottles.

EDIT: found the thread here http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...ad.php?t=12389


Terry - this may be what is at work here, if indeed that D76 of yours spent some time in a half-empty bottle.

Hope this helps....
I have had a look at your link, Svend, but while the OP, JakubV mentions that "some reports" indicate that PH rises this is a link to a Photrio thread where the "jury appears to be out " on what real effect half filled bottles have on PH. There is no contribution that I could see on this aspect by Ian

What seems clearer is the statement by a member called PE( now deceased unfortunately) that activity may increase over the first 24 hours but thereafter remains stable

If Ian Grant mentions this increase on PH and therefore activity in half filled bottles I can't find it

Mike
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  #13  
Old 12th April 2022, 01:55 AM
Svend Svend is offline
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Mike - I'm pretty sure Ian mentioned it to me at some point, but likely in a different post/thread.
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  #14  
Old 12th April 2022, 11:24 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Mike - I'm pretty sure Ian mentioned it to me at some point, but likely in a different post/thread.
OK Svend, thanks . With a bit of luck Ian may see this thread and give us his response

Mike
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  #15  
Old 13th April 2022, 11:13 AM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Developing film at 1+3 at the correct capacity for the film involves a certain amount of developer exhaustion, as the developer at that dilution is close to its limits of capacity.

With a larger reservoir of developer solution to draw upon, the developer exhaustion becomes insignificant.

However, it shouldn't make a great deal of difference.

If the film is significantly over developed, it is more likely something else was amiss in your process - developer temperature is the most likely culprit ?

Martin
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  #16  
Old 16th April 2022, 02:03 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Thanks to everyone who replied and apologies on a late reply, due to just being a bit busier than usual.

So onto your individual points...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyNL View Post
Based on what you've told us Terry, I'm tempted to ask about how the film was metered and exposured?
The roll of 35mm HP5+ was put through a camera that I haven't used in a while, but it's always given me good results before, both with b/w and colour film. The camera used was an Olympus AZ210 Superzoom, which does all the metering and exposing with no over-ride available. It was given to me as a birthday present, some years ago now:

https://filmphotography.eu/en/olympus-az-210-superzoom/

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
I normally develop 35mm films in 500ml solution. It shouldn’t make any difference to the density.
Alex
Good to hear Alex as that helps rule out that thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Well the MDC times are what Ilford gives at 1+3 but you may know this anyway, Terry. I agree with the others that what you did should not have resulted in dense negatives unless the exposure was more than it should have been

If previous home-made ID11 gave OK negs with HP5+ then has anything changed such as camera, meter etc to affect the exposure given?

Mike
The exposures across the whole film look similar and it looks like the meter worked fine. And yes, the camera was the main variable, along with using the developer at 1+3 instead of my usual 1+1. The home mixed developer gives me good negatives usually and the main reason I think it may have been that for some reason, was that the rebates look a bit denser than normal, making me think that the developer somehow overdeveloped or that the times were a bit too long...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyNL View Post
This may seem far fetched Terry, but when you brew your own developers, have you noticed any increase in development activity, as you reach the end of the bottle?

Does the mixture become 'heavier' towards the bottom of the container during storage?

Do you mix the developer thoroughly before each use?
Marty, I can't say that I've ever noticed the developer activity changing as I use it and yes it is mixed thoroughly with each use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
Increased development should produce very dense highlights, but the shadows should look fairly normal. Over exposure will make the whole negative look dense. Depending on the range of tones in your negatives, it should be possible to work out which effect you are seeing.
Alex
Alex, yes, the highlights in the negatives are a bit denser and made a more contrasty contact sheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Marty, this is not at all far-fetched. It is well documented that D76/ID11 increases in activity after extended storage, in particular if kept in partially-filled bottles. Ian Grant alerted me to this here some time ago (not sure I can find that post again, however). Since then I always make sure to store it in full bottles.

Terry - this may be what is at work here, if indeed that D76 of yours spent some time in a half-empty bottle.

Hope this helps....
Svend, I wouldn't say that the developer had extended storage, for I actually went though this batch in just a couple of months, which is much shorter than normal for me. Note that I always top up the bottle with butane whenever I take any out to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
Developing film at 1+3 at the correct capacity for the film involves a certain amount of developer exhaustion, as the developer at that dilution is close to its limits of capacity.

With a larger reservoir of developer solution to draw upon, the developer exhaustion becomes insignificant.

If the film is significantly over developed, it is more likely something else was amiss in your process - developer temperature is the most likely culprit ?

Martin
Martin, temperature is a maybe, but it would only be a tad if at all, as I'm quite strict about getting that right.

So, I'll have a go at printing some of the negatives soon and see how much the grain and contrast are affected. From this information, I will see if it is preferential to make up a new batch of the developer in the future, if I end up with too little to use it at my usual 1+1.

Thanks once more for all the replies. Much appreciated.

Terry S
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  #17  
Old 16th April 2022, 06:10 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Like others here, Terry, I always develop 35mm film in 500ml of solution, and it's fine, and that was with ID11 when I was trying, and my normal Rodinal, it's easier to measure the larger amount at 1/50 in Rodinal,
Richard
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  #18  
Old 17th April 2022, 12:54 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
I have had a look at your link, Svend, but while the OP, JakubV mentions that "some reports" indicate that PH rises this is a link to a Photrio thread where the "jury appears to be out " on what real effect half filled bottles have on PH. There is no contribution that I could see on this aspect by Ian

What seems clearer is the statement by a member called PE( now deceased unfortunately) that activity may increase over the first 24 hours but thereafter remains stable

If Ian Grant mentions this increase on PH and therefore activity in half filled bottles I can't find it

Mike
I've just came across this short thread, which also refers to the developers activity increase...

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...storage.55838/

Terry S
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