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> Minimum amount of stock developer to develop film. |
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#1
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Minimum amount of stock developer to develop film.
Where do you find out how much stock developer is needed to develop film. I have seen online that Xtol needs 100mm stock per 135mm film, D76 120ml stock per film and Rodinol 6mm stock per film. Please correct the later if the stock amount per film is wrong. What about other developers like, Pyrocat HD, D23, FX 37, Perceptol etc.?
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#2
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As I use rotary processing in a Jobo 1510 tank I only need 140ml of working solution I have tested ID11 at 1+3 dilution for 35mm and 120 films and had no problem so ID11 and D76 should be OK with 35ml of stock for one film. This really only matters when using small Jobo rotary tanks or devices like a the old Rondinax or modern LAB-BOX that use smallish volumes (270 ml) with continuous agitation.
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#3
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I have often wondered how this affected rotary processing when it comes down to as little as 35ml but clearly you have managed it OK which is useful to know so thanks. I once wrote to Ilford about Perceptol where on a certain interpretation of the tech sheets you might conclude that 250ml stock was the minimum and indeed some have on that other site. I have managed inversion in a Jobo (250ml in round figures) with 1+3 so 62.5 ml and the negs and prints from those negs were fine as far as I could see. In the hope of helping others and after writing to Ilford to ask if there was a min recommended stock as I had managed with 62.5 ml, its reply said that 70ml might be better as less than this might be OK but with no safety margin So I then conveyed what Ilford had said to those on Photrio in hope that this might help others. Well if it did help then those whom it helped have never said so and those for whom this was nonsense said it was nonsense despite the lford reply The logical conclusion if, say, 100ml is the min stock required is that all rotary processing is a "no,no" which has to be patent nonsense surely. Otherwise Ilford would give users a massive warning to this effect, surely? In the case of the interpretation that with Perceptol it is 250ml min then if you want to use the 1+3 dilution a 1L tank is required and at 4 films per 1L packet, it turns Perceptol into a very expensive developer This kind of response is thankfully not a FADU one but it does illustrate how difficult it can be to cause some to even consider that others' experience might be different Mike |
#4
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Sorry folks I cannot see where or what the problem is. The quantity should be dictated by the size of the tank and the dilution of the developer stock solution. A weaker solution means you will have to develop longer.
Is there a finite minimum of the stock solution? I don't know. At one time with the original (Agfa) Rodinal there was a 1-200 dilution with long development times (around thee days I would imagine) Sorry I am only joking. But just think, a 1-200 dilution in a 250cc tank a only means 2.25cc of stock solution. Unless you use something like a hyperdermic syringe you will find it almost impossible to get right. I regularly dilute ID11 @ 1-3 and honestly the amount of stock at that dilution if it is 1cc out, it will matter neither here or there |
#5
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For stand development it is useful to know how much concentrate a particular length of film requires. I know the figure from Rodinal, from a discussion somewhere and some time ago in FADU; but the data sheet for my go-to, Ilfotec HC has no mention.
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#6
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There's a difference between optimum and what one can get away with. I suspect that much of the advice on the internet has not been tested for being optimum. One way to test would be to develop a carefully exposed film in a really generous amount of developer at whatever dilution is desired. Then do another identical film with a low amount as recommended by someone. Then try another with a bit less. Is there a difference? There will be a point where it's different in a bad way, but maybe some of the intermediate results will be preferred. Then you will know.
I haven't done these tests. My approach is to use a generous amount of very cheap developer so I don't have to worry that I might be getting sub optimal results as a result of developer quantity. I am not in favour of waste, but for me photography is rather labour intensive and I don't want to take chances. I do have one data point: 250mL of standard strength PMK is not enough for a 36 exposure roll of 35mm film. It was enough to cover the roll in a Jobo inversion tank. This might be due to oxidation, a characteristic of PMK. 500mL was noticeably better. These days I use Pyrocat-HD at a lower than standard dilution, at 1Litre per roll. |
#7
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Developer dilution
Ah! The difference between 'optimum' and what you can 'get away with.' Ilford give times for stock solution and 1-1 and 1-3 development time but warn the 1-3 dilution can lead to tonal compression. To be honest I have used both with 120 and 35mm and to be honest I cannot really tell the difference and unless you have specialised test equipment that will be very difficult.
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#8
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#9
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I tried this.
http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...hp?albumid=575
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MartyNL “Reaching a creative state of mind thru positive action is considered preferable to waiting for inspiration.” - Minor White, 1950 |
#10
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My conclusion is, is that you need to do your own tests using your film, chemicals and methodology. This is both expensive and time consuming. I prefer tweaking and putting processing notes onto the negative sleeves.
I don't believe that there is one absolute volume which can be applied across the board to all developers. After all, 1 litre of Tmax developer for just 4 films would be ridiculously uneconomical! The pic's in the album are negative scans of Tmax film with backing paper issues and they are all as good or as bad as each other! Best of luck finding your minimum and/or optimum stock developer combinations.
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MartyNL “Reaching a creative state of mind thru positive action is considered preferable to waiting for inspiration.” - Minor White, 1950 |
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