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  #11  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:08 AM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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This is a really interesting thread but a couple of things that have come up that go slightly off topic but will mention them in passing as they do not warrant a new thread:

1) Lostlabours makes reference to 'Windisch - Die Neue Foto Schule' with a scan of the cover. This reminded me that I have a copy of this but a 1954 Edition in German that was my father's. I must have a closer look through it although my understanding of German will make it a tough job, although my earliest school experience was in German albeit in Switzerland!

2) Scans just don't do justice to 'real' prints and I find it difficult to appreciate the often subtle issues referred to. Hence, I like the Print Exchange.
Mike
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  #12  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:10 AM
Molli Molli is offline
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At first I thought these were composites, contact printed through the paper for the most part or prints photographed and printed from the copy negative. I have a late 30s negative of a photograph of my great grandparents with a similar look to some of these which I attempted to print.
However, I've just taken a closer look at the prints I recently made from some 1930s - late '40s silver nitrate negatives and they look MUCH closer to the look achieved in the photos you've linked to, Jakub.
I'm afraid I have no idea of the name of the photographer or the subjects. I was handed a plastic bag a few years ago containing curled ribbons of silver nitrate film and have only just recently printed from them and, still, just these two frames.

Am I imagining a similarity in tonality and grain structure?

In an attempt to keep film and paper within a few decades of each other, I printed these on Agfa-Gevaert Brovira White Lustre Grade 3. Straight print on a condenser enlarger. No burning or dodging. Apologies for the "burnt edge" on the prints, its the paper's only fault. Also, while I've since spotted out the scrape marks and gouges, I hadn't done so at the time of the scans. They're caused by film damage, not a terrible lack of cleanliness in my darkroom!





Last edited by Molli; 12th April 2020 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Prints didn't attach.
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  #13  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:24 AM
Molli Molli is offline
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A third attempt to get the prints to attach...
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  #14  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:30 AM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakubV View Post
So, I was looking at some photographs when I came across this one: https://tinyurl.com/s5lxfoy (it's from mid 30's, I think, by amazing photographer, ethnographer and film director Karol Plicka; more samples here https://evikysupliky.rajce.idnes.cz/...Karola_Plicku/)
What an interesting set of high quality photos. Thanks for posting in this interesting thread. They gives us a glimpse of photographs to which most of us are unlikely to be exposed to outside this forum. I have found that it takes 25 years for even very 'ordinary' photographs to suddenly become really interesting.
Mike
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  #15  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:46 AM
MikeHeller MikeHeller is offline
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Congratulations to Molli for printing the old negatives so well. I have tried to print some of my father's negatives from 30's and WWII in the past few years and failed miserably to get any decent quality and did not achieve the quality of the contemporary prints he made at the time which my sister has: I have the negatives. I used to have some old paper, including Agfa Brovira; I wonder if I still have and must have a look and see if it is still at all usable.
Mike
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  #16  
Old 12th April 2020, 11:59 AM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monst View Post
I think a lot of the look is the lenses and as said earlier a nice silver rich emulsion. This is one from my old Graflex, a very different shot to the one being talked about but stopped down you get a similar result. This was foma 100 on a 5x7 Graflex and a Dallmeyer Pentac
A lovely print there Monst.

Can you give a bit more detail about the print i.e. the paper and developer used? Please just don't tell me it was 'toned' in Photoshop...

Many thanks,

Terry S
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  #17  
Old 12th April 2020, 12:03 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Jakub, paper negatives have been mentioned, which I would definitely give a go, but also developing the film in print developer, will give you a different look and contrast and definitely a bit more grain!

A bit of reading up and probably a bit of experimenting will be required to get results that you are happy with though.

Thanks for starting this interesting thread btw.

Terry S
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  #18  
Old 12th April 2020, 12:08 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHeller View Post
This is a really interesting thread but a couple of things that have come up that go slightly off topic but will mention them in passing as they do not warrant a new thread:

1) Lostlabours makes reference to 'Windisch - Die Neue Foto Schule' with a scan of the cover. This reminded me that I have a copy of this but a 1954 Edition in German that was my father's. I must have a closer look through it although my understanding of German will make it a tough job, although my earliest school experience was in German albeit in Switzerland!
By the mid 1950's Hans Windisch's book had become



This is a 1956 copy.

Ian
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  #19  
Old 12th April 2020, 01:54 PM
JakubV JakubV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monst View Post
foma 100 on a 5x7 Graflex and a Dallmeyer Pentac
Now that is impressively impresionistic old lens definitely help with contrast & tonality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
Jakub,
The grain in the sky in these pictures doesn't seem to me to be sharp and crisp like film grain. It reminds me of the effect I got when I made a 10 x 8 pinhole camera and used paper negatives. These pictures are sharper than my pinhole efforts, of course, but the texture in the sky looks like what I got from the texture in the paper negative. I used Ilford Multigrade 4 RC glossy for negatives.
If you have a large format camera maybe you could try using paper negatives and see what happens. Just a suggestion....

Alan
I do not own LF camera (yet, but nobody tell my wife ), but using paper negative in 6x6 is now about two months on my to-do list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
...also developing the film in print developer, will give you a different look and contrast and definitely a bit more grain!
...

Terry S
I did Foma 100 in Foma universal, which should be a PQ paper developer that Foma reccomends as film developer at 1+3 dilution...results are quite more grainy, but the tones are bit harsh to my liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molli View Post
A third attempt to get the prints to attach...
That is exactly "it", superb! I think this sufficiently shows me, that the look is done by film & paper long unavailable...damn the evolution, always wanting higher resolution, speed and smaller grain

So, this leaves me experimenting...graded Foma fb papers looks classic enough to be able to do this which leaves the experimentation in the film (or paper negative).
I have to share (probably) my best attempt yet; FADU rules will hopefully forgive as it is scan of a negative, but even if I popped into a darkroom and made the print, I couldn't scan it anyway (at least until the pandemic is still on & I can't get to work to use my scaner).
It's Foma 200 135 developed in Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand (1st minute continuous then 3 agitations at 20 and 40 mins each).

Jakub
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  #20  
Old 12th April 2020, 02:44 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monst View Post
I think a lot of the look is the lenses and as said earlier a nice silver rich emulsion. This is one from my old Graflex, a very different shot to the one being talked about but stopped down you get a similar result. This was foma 100 on a 5x7 Graflex and a Dallmeyer Pentac

There's mention by others of EFKE and Foma films, I still ahve a few hundred sheets of EFKE Pl25 in various formats and some Pl100, I also have some Fortepan 200. Personally I don't think of any of these as old fashioned films and have prints made from them taht compare well to Delat 100 & 400, Tmax 100 & 400 as well as LF HP5.

Having seen a few Pentac lenses they are often low contrast, usually because their condition isn't great. I looked at 3 Pentac's earlier this month and. I'll stick with my Dallmeyer 6" f3.5 Press lens for now (also sold as a Dalmac). That's not meant as a criticism of your lens Monst

With uncoated lenses the design makes a huge difference and it's due to the number of internal air/glass surfaces. A Dagor or Protar is almost as good as any coated or MC lens (2 internal air glass surfaces), a Tessar or Triplet type lens has 4 internal air/glass surfaces as does the Pentac and there is a noticeable contrast drop, Dialytes have 6 internal air/glass surfaces and there's a further drop in contrast. I did post some examples using a DSLR on APUG/Photrio 3 or 4 years ago, all the lenses were in excellent optical condition and the contrast drop was exactly as expected.

We have to remember that coatings make a significant difference with Tessar and type lenses, and completely transform Dialytes like the 203nn f7.7 Ekar (the Kodak Anastigmat 203mm f7.7 is the older uncoated version of the same lens). I also did a comparison between an uncoated and coated CZJ Tessar and the T coate version has no contrast drop.

The late Jame Ravilious swore by uncoated Leitz lenses because of the look and fell they gave. This is probably far more important tahn choice of film, although the way we expose and devolp films will also have an effect.

Ian
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