Ilford D3200 with Xtol

[Mike O'Pray]

I have a 35mm D3200 to develop which was shot at box speed. I intend to dilute it at 1+1 which is my usual dilution.The Massive Dev Chart lists its findings as follows:

EI 1600 at 1+1 = 15 mins

EI 1600 at 1+2 = 17 mins

From this it appears that going from 1+2 to 1+1 requires a reduction in time of 12% roughly.

Again from the MDC EI 3200 at 1+2 = 20mins so my assumption is that at 1+1 a 12% reduction is required which gives 17.5 mins

All times are based on 24 degrees C

So does my logic above stand up to scrutiny and better still do any FADUers have experience of developing D3200 at box speed in either 25mm or 120 and if so could they give me times and temp and agitation pattern is it deviates from Kodak's for Xtol?


Thanks all


Mike

[MartyNL]

Hi Mike,

Firstly let me say that I have no experience with this combination. But having seen your developing time and logic I thought I'd share how I would normally go about solving this kind of problem.

I'd start off by taking a look at the appropriate data sheet for the film and/or developer.

In this case, Ilfords own data sheet for Delta 3200 in Xtol stock solution at 20c is 7m.30s.


Then, I would look at the difference in deveolping times between the stock solution and 1+1 dilution (even for a variety of films) to find the development time factor rather than work backwards from the 1+2 to 1+1 dilutions.
You can use the developer data sheet and/or the MassDevCh as a source.
It would appear to me, that for the majority of film-Xtol combinations, the developer time factor floats around the 20-50% range depending on ISO.


Going back to the Ilford Delta 3200 data sheet a 50% increase would mean;
7m.30s + 3m.45s = 11m.25s@20c

Even a development time factor of 100% would only mean;
7m.30s +7m.30s = 15m@20c


Based on these calculations I would dare to say that your proposed time of;
17m.30s@24c
would deliver over-cooked negs.


I hope you get something more concrete, alternatively you could just use stock solution?
In any event, best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[MartyNL]

Just found this link too;
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Ti...200/d3200.html

[cliveh]

My advice would be 14 minutes at 60F.

[Mike O'Pray]

Originally Posted by cliveh

My advice would be 14 minutes at 60F.

Clive is this your actual times and temp for this combo or what you believe will be right? Do you really mean 60F?

If I have understood the time temp conversion charts this is about 9 mins at 20C. Is this a stock solution time?

Why dev at so low a temp?

Thanks

Mike

[Mike O'Pray]

Originally Posted by MartyNL

Just found this link too;
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Ti...200/d3200.html

Thanks for that. I should have looked up that site as it often has good info. The John Hicks times seem to be the same as the MDC chart or very close so unless the MDC contributors have simply copied the Hicks times rather than used them then it isn't just Hicks that has gotten good negs from these times.

Based on the Hicks chart I can either follow it exactly at 1+2 and 20 mins or take a chance( hopefully a small chance) and use 17/17.5 mins at 1+1.

There is a lot of evidence that D3200 is the one film in the Ilford range where the Ilford times are suspect. Les McLean and a lot of others believe that with DDX you need to time for the next speed up.

OK Xtol isn't DDX but I do wonder if Ilford is quoting good times for Xtol and D3200 at stock solution.

If you look a the Ilford Xtol/D3200 times for both 20 and 24C the reduction is only 30 sec for a 4C increase and yet the time temp conversion chart shows that a much bigger decrease needs to be factored in.

I might go with John Hicks 1+2 time. It should be reliable and will also demonstrate what effect 1+2 has on things like grain increase.

Thanks again for the link


Mike

[cliveh]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray

Clive is this your actual times and temp for this combo or what you believe will be right? Do you really mean 60F?

If I have understood the time temp conversion charts this is about 9 mins at 20C. Is this a stock solution time?

Why dev at so low a temp?

Thanks

Mike

Mike, I do apologise, as I meant 68F at 1:1 and I have no experience of this combo, it is my own guesstimate.

[Mike O'Pray]

Thanks Clive. I think that 14 mins is in the ball park but may be at the bottom end of a range of times.

20 mins does seem quite long even at 1+2 and 24C and yet it seems unlikely that Hicks would want to overdevelop by a big margin.

TMax 3200 in Xtol at 1+1 is 18.5 mins which is close to my calculation of 17.5 mins for D3200 at 20C. So is D3200 that much different a film from a developing aspect? It's a puzzle.

Mike

[topoxforddoc]

Mike,
Can't help specifically with this question. However, I'm not a great fan of 3200 as I could never get anything like the box speed on this. If you want to use film at 1600/3200, then try HP5 or Neopan 400 pushed 2-3 stops in XTOL 1:1. I routinely push them to 1600 in this way for my concert photography. 3200 works too.

Best wishes,

[Mike O'Pray]

Thanks Charlie. I did try my D3200 exposed at box speed and would now say two things:

1. Box speed for D3200 should be a last resort as I suspected it would be. In most cases 1600 is adequate anyway
2. It was clear that my 17.5 mins wasn't enough and I doubt if the 18.5 mins based on Tmax 3200 with Xtol 1+1 would have been enough either. It would seem that John Hicks recommendation is probably close to what development should be, despite it being way more than you'd assume it should be.

3. I have yet to try HP5+ or Neopan 400 at 1600 but based on your pics this would appear to be a good or even better alternative to D3200. There is a premium price for D3200 which may not be justified on results.

Mike