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  #11  
Old 20th October 2016, 12:00 PM
B&W Neil's Avatar
B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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Mike,

I have seen some good Bromoil examples on RC papers but generally they are considered harder to work with and difficult to ink up. IIRC a more agressive bleach / tanning bath is used.

There are currently only a few suitable FB papers availble for Bromoil work:

Imago
Fomabrom 112 matt
Slavich matt

Old papers often work - especially Kentmere
Document Art and Kentona. A none supercoated paper is best to use.

Also it is possible to Bromoil art papers coated with liquid emulsion.

Neil.
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  #12  
Old 20th October 2016, 06:44 PM
colinH colinH is offline
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Well, I had another try today - without success. I gave 2 unused matrix a further soaking but that did not help. Scratching my head I gave further thought and then remembered that I had read that when making your own bleach/tan to use it 1 shot and discard.
The solution from Wet Plate Supplies only printed on the label 'Ready for Use'. When I used it I emptied the whole 500ml into a tray and used it for 5 prints - undoubtedly it exhausted fairly quickly. I contacted W/P who agreed that it is indeed 1 shot use and to only pour in enough solution to JUST cover the print. So I have today ordered another 500ml hopefully to arrive tomorrow.
I tried to order some chemicals to make my own but am unable to get any Pot. Dich. - Oxford Chemserve are out of stock.

Once I am up and running again, I'll post again.
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  #13  
Old 20th October 2016, 08:14 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Neil. When I watched the Gryspeerdt video he too mentioned a non supercoated paper without saying what this was. What exactly constitutes non supercoated?

Thanks

Colin, incidentally while Mr Gryspeerd seems to leave some stuff out, takes a while to get to the actual technique and doesn't fully cover his manipulation of some of his brilliant but made-up pictures that he bromoils, I think I recall him saying that bleaching and tanning was a one-off then throw away procedure

Anyway if you are into bromoil I think you'll find his series of videos worth watching


Mike
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  #14  
Old 20th October 2016, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Thanks Neil. When I watched the Gryspeerdt video he too mentioned a non supercoated paper without saying what this was. What exactly constitutes non supercoated?
.....
Mike,

Interestingly, a non supercoated paper is - err- a paper without a supercoat

The supercoat is there to protect the emulsion and most modern papers have this feature. With Bromoiling the supercoat makes it diffiicult to make the matrix for inking, so us Bromoilists avoid using them. Liquid emulsion does not have a suprercoat so is suitable to use, but you need some skill to use it.

All bromoilist work slightly differently but use same basic steps. Making the matrix (for inking) is pretty straightforward with the right neg, chemicals and paper. From there on things can be very different and each Bromoilist will work out a technique that suits the type of image they are making. This is a very individual and creative way on making an image and it does take a while to get there.

Neil.
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Last edited by B&W Neil; 20th October 2016 at 09:37 PM.
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  #15  
Old 20th October 2016, 09:51 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&W Neil View Post
Mike,

Interestingly, a non supercoated paper is - err- a paper without a supercoat

The supercoat is there to protect the emulsion and most modern papers have this feature.
Neil.
Thanks Neil. So essentially both modern FB and RC papers are supercoated and thus neither is any better for bromoiling per se. It has nothing to do with FB v RC or surfacing i.e. a matt RC might have the same supercoat as a glossy RC and as such neither is better for bromoiling than the other

It is simply that of the range of modern papers the non supercoated ones which you mention just happen to be FB but it would be possible to make RC paper without a supercoat?

Have I got this right?

Thanks

Mike
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  #16  
Old 21st October 2016, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Thanks Neil. So essentially both modern FB and RC papers are supercoated and thus neither is any better for bromoiling per se. It has nothing to do with FB v RC or surfacing i.e. a matt RC might have the same supercoat as a glossy RC and as such neither is better for bromoiling than the other

It is simply that of the range of modern papers the non supercoated ones which you mention just happen to be FB but it would be possible to make RC paper without a supercoat?

Have I got this right?

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

Yes that about sums it up.

Supercoating (SC) applies to most currently produced papers FB and RC and all finishes, with these assumed exeptions:

Imago
Slavich
Fomabrom 112

NB The Fomabrom 112 emulsion apprears to have changed because I and a few others I know have had inking issues with the current Foma 112 paper.

The SC is in fact an improvement for normal printing as it protects the emulsion. You may remember in days gone by with none SC papers it was easy to damage them when wet? Tongs, fingers and other physical contacting could easily damage the surface and ruin a print.

I would guess a none SC RC paper could be made but no one wants to make one - lack of demand I should imagine.

Neil.
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Last edited by B&W Neil; 21st October 2016 at 10:39 AM.
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  #17  
Old 21st October 2016, 04:20 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Neil. Looking at each of the three papers you mention:
The Fomabrom is now stuff that there is a problem with inking.

Who stocks Slavic paper? It looks difficult to find. Ag Photographic mentions problems with EU sanctions against the Russian Federation( a few more warships through the Dover Straits and things can only get worse)

Finally Imago meets all of the bromoil requirements but Firstcall only seem to stock 12x16

Not much to be cheerful about. All the signs to a glass half-empty person like me is that the process may be on its last legs and its survival looks doubtful except for maybe die-hard aficionados who might be prepared to work around the problems by cutting Imago paper or even coating paper themselves

For a newcomer it doesn't look easy

Mike
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  #18  
Old 21st October 2016, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Thanks Neil. Looking at each of the three papers you mention:
The Fomabrom is now stuff that there is a problem with inking.

Who stocks Slavic paper? It looks difficult to find. Ag Photographic mentions problems with EU sanctions against the Russian Federation( a few more warships through the Dover Straits and things can only get worse)

Finally Imago meets all of the bromoil requirements but Firstcall only seem to stock 12x16

Not much to be cheerful about. All the signs to a glass half-empty person like me is that the process may be on its last legs and its survival looks doubtful except for maybe die-hard aficionados who might be prepared to work around the problems by cutting Imago paper or even coating paper themselves

For a newcomer it doesn't look easy

Mike


Mike,

Slavich can be obtained from Ireland and elsewhere in the EU. It is a mystery why nobody in the UK sells it - probably not enough margin Not only is it a good Bromoil paper it is also superb as a lith paper and I now use it as my as my lith paper of choice - a very creative paper indeed.

Imago is only made every so often so we tend to stock up when it is available. 12 x16 is not a problem as it is easily cut down to smaller sizes. Most Bromoilist work on smaller paper sizes these days, but at least you can create a 5x7 or 10 x8 alternative process image without owning the cameras or buying large sized film sheets.

Any alternative process is hard to get into and I wouldn't recommend Bromoil as the place to start. Evverything with alternative work is now becoming a problem but the enthusiasts of these processes find ways around these problems to keep them going for the future generations to enjoy. And in my book - that can't be a bad thing

Neil.
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Last edited by B&W Neil; 21st October 2016 at 06:34 PM.
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  #19  
Old 21st October 2016, 09:55 PM
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You are using the wrong paper.
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  #20  
Old 22nd October 2016, 11:34 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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You are using the wrong paper.
Clive I take it this is a reference to Fomabrom Variant 123 in the opening post. Is this because it is supercoated?

Thanks

Mike
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