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Old 30th June 2015, 09:30 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Default Effect of darkroom temperature on developer temperature

Here's a topical item, given our sudden heatwave in the U.K. It was 26C in my darkroom this afternoon so l thought I'd check to see if a tank with developer at 20C would remain at that temperature for the full processing time of 12 mins.

In fact it rose just under three quarters of a degree over 12 mins which was less than I had expected.

Had I been intending to process a film I believe that for the 12 mins processing time the effective average temp was only 20.375C or call it 20.4C

The compensation for this kind of a rise is practically zero.

My conclusion is that even when the darkroom temp is 6C more than the temp I wish to process at I can safely ignore any compensation.

Yes you can heat the developer to close to the room temp and use the compensation tables provided but for those who prefer to stay with 20C for simplicity then unless your darkroom is at a temperature at which I for one would not bother to process a film anyway it would seem that you can stick with 20C without fear of a real rise in developer temp.

At least that is my conclusion. For those of you who prefer to stick with 20C it may be worth your while to check to see what rise in temp your developer undergoes. You may be pleasantly surprised as I was

Mike
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Old 1st July 2015, 06:36 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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This is a big issue when I'm in Turkey, but there the water temperature is far higher as well 26º-27ºC so I work at that temperature and it's easy to keep the whole process including washing to +/- 0.5ºC

Yesterday it was 28.4ºC in my UK darkroom, it would have been cooler if I'd not left the door open all day. I'd process at 21ºC because the tap water was at 20.7ºC so very easy to keep to the +/- 0.5ºC.

Temperature control is less of an issue in the summer as you found the drift was slight, it's when it's cooler and you need to warm tap water, maintain temperatures there's greater potential issues.

Ian
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Old 1st July 2015, 07:08 AM
John King John King is offline
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Or you could use a quantity of crushed ice to cool it. The amount of water contained in half an ice cube isn't going to make much difference. That's what we used use when I was in the Army in Cyprus
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Old 1st July 2015, 07:46 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I checked the temperture in my darkroom yesterday, it was 32, and water I stored in a couple of jugs came out at 30, it was the hottest june day here in over a hundred years, I tend to keep water in jugs in my darkroom for film processing and develop at the temperture that the water is, adjusting the time according to the Ilford chart, and keeping to within 1/2 degree is not a problem in the summer, and as I am one of the lucky ones and have central heating in the darkroom for the winter, keeping things at a pleasant 24 to 25, I don't have too many problems in winter, although I don't have running water available in there,
Richard
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Old 1st July 2015, 08:15 AM
big paul big paul is offline
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straight out of the tap in to the dev in to the tank ,no boiling the kettle , so I am saving on electrickery ,,so I am a happy bunny ,but I am British so I will have to moan about the weather sooner or later....




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Old 1st July 2015, 09:22 AM
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Jakecb Jakecb is offline
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I am using deionised now for dev and stop after reading about some of the stuff in tap water. Possibly a bit precious of me...
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Old 1st July 2015, 12:28 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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It is generally easier to process at room temperature, whatever that may be, and use Ilford's excellent compensation table to work out the necessary time adjustment. To avoid reticulation, don't use a water stop and have the fix and the first few water-changes at the same temperature.
Some years ago I had to establish some processing specifications for B&W film in a one-shot rotary processor. Since this was to be used in an environment shared with typical minilab equipment in summer, we researched something that would work at 30deg. I tried several developers and several B&W films, including a
Chinese brand. Kodak emulsions (still around then), Adox and Ilford behaved impeccably in the usual developers but Seagull/Oriental frilled, leaving bits hanging off, in D76, Microphen and one other (supplied as a liquid - I think it was HC110).
Kodak suggested neat XTOL (we were warned that diluted XTOL had a limited shelf life in an open storage tank) which worked very well and this is what we recommended.
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Old 1st July 2015, 01:27 PM
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David Brown David Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
My conclusion is that even when the darkroom temp is 6C more than the temp I wish to process at I can safely ignore any compensation.

... unless your darkroom is at a temperature at which I for one would not bother to process a film anyway it would seem that you can stick with 20C without fear of a real rise in developer temp.
Yes. Completely agree.
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Old 1st July 2015, 04:13 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Brown View Post
Yes. Completely agree.
Might not apply in Texas, David where the cold water probably comes out of the tap this time of year at 100F.

A friend of mine travelled on a very early morning Greyhound bus to Phoenix, Arizona arriving about 2:00pm. It had seemed warm to him but very tolerable until he got off the bus. He hadn't realised that the bus AC was going full blast. The temp on a giant read-out in the centre of Phoenix was 123F !

Yes it was Arizona but I don't suppose that Texas is much different

Mike
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Old 3rd July 2015, 12:45 AM
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David Brown David Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Might not apply in Texas, David where the cold water probably comes out of the tap this time of year at 100F.
Well, not quite, maybe around 80F.

The thing is, 3 months ago it was 50F. It's never right.

The OP's point, as I understood it, and that with which I was agreeing, was that if the temperature of the darkroom is suitable (and comfortable), then the temperature of the developer will not change enough to be significant. That has been my experience in Texas darkrooms for 46 years.

My darkroom is heated and air conditioned. I realize that many find that to be extravagant and a luxury, but I find it to be a necessity; in that: if it were not so, I would hardly ever be willing to work in it. So, the room temperature when I am working - any time of year - is going to be in a range of 18 - 24 degrees C. This allows a starting film developer temp of 20C at any time (I temper using warm or cool water as needed) and no significant change over the course of development. For paper, all of the chemicals are at "room temperature".

Wash water is usually within tolerances as specified by Ilford's literature, except in the extremes of summer, at which time I use their fill and dunk method using water stored (again, at room temperature) in the darkroom.
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