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  #1  
Old 13th July 2020, 03:19 PM
robinb robinb is offline
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Default what is a "hard working" developer

Ive read about various developers being "hard working" but what exactly is that

and while we at it I guess it would be good to know what the hardest working developer is

best

robin
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Old 13th July 2020, 04:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Robin, the expression sounds familiar to me but now I cannot understand why I haven't asked a similar good question.

I may be in a particularly sceptical mood today but unless this was qualified rigorously by the source then it sounds like marketing "BS" of the worse order to me.

As a marketeer I want you to (a) like the stuff and (b) imbue it with a human virtue

"Hard working" fits the bill very well. Thinking about it and assuming we have a phrase that belongs to a "marketing Herbert with day-glo
braces" I am now only surprised why the word honest was not added

Mike
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Old 13th July 2020, 04:42 PM
robinb robinb is offline
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hi mike

I believe the opposite of hard working is soft working as appose lazy ...
i think its something to do with contrast so might of been called high contrast instead of hard working but who knows
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Old 13th July 2020, 05:07 PM
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vanannan vanannan is offline
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Neat Hc110
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Old 13th July 2020, 05:32 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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I don't know what is a hardworking developer, but for me as long with film, it gives me the results I want and like to give me the prints I want and like it is, for me, hard working, currently, the film developers I like are N01 Rodinal, RO9/one shot, gives me lovely negatives, and for certain light and still life shots, ID11, which with the film I like gives me lovely detail, I say what works for you is fine, If you want hard working in the form of High contrast or soft contrast then I believe that Maco, under their Rollei brand name do a high contrast and soft contrast developer, I tried them both a few years ago, and the high is very hard, gave me grade 1 to 1 1/2 grade prints, the low contrast gave me 3 to 4 grade prints, using my 2 preferred film developers and my method of working,developing times and iso give me around 2 to 3 prints
Richard
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Old 13th July 2020, 05:56 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Robin when the word hard working was used what was the context? Was it in fact to do with contrast? It may be that I have seen this phrase in the context of paper developer but the word may have been soft working but his was in the context of soft working developers i.e low contrast paper developers

Mike
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Old 13th July 2020, 06:23 PM
robinb robinb is offline
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hi mike

i think it was referring to paper developers
and i think a hard working one is a contrasty one

i was reading something about ra4 reversal processing and it mentioned needing a hard working first developer like dektol
but having used dektol in the states i’d say it was a pretty “standard” developer

best

robin
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Old 13th July 2020, 06:27 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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All about print development. Discussion here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...lopers.117120/

Pretty sure Brock had something about hard/soft developers on his Blog at one time?? Never felt the need to expore this as I almost always use Multigrade papers now, which give me all the flexibility I need. Perhaps of greater value to anyone committed to graded printing papers.
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Old 14th July 2020, 07:35 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
All about print development. Discussion here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...lopers.117120/

Pretty sure Brock had something about hard/soft developers on his Blog at one time?? Never felt the need to expore this as I almost always use Multigrade papers now, which give me all the flexibility I need. Perhaps of greater value to anyone committed to graded printing papers.
You can easily confuse what's meant here, in the linked thread Soft working means in terms of soft contrast where choice of a Soft working developer came reduce a paper's contrast by around a Grade or more.

The term Contrast developer, or High contrast developer is used to denote the opposite where the developer can increase a paper's contrast by a grade by or more.

The term "Hard working" was used to denote high and consistent throughput, a developer that wouldn't collapse during a printing session.

An example would be D163 which was Kodak's main paper developer here in the UK (Dektol/D72 was the US alternative and introduced here much later). Bot D163 and D72 are MQ developers and because of the Metol don't have a particularly high throughpu, with papers there's a gradual build up of free Bromide as a result of development and this inhibits the developing action of Metol slowing development to the point where times increase significantly and it then becomes ineffective.

If you switch to a PQ developer like ID-62/PQ Universal (or Kodak Liquid Dektol) using Phenidone or Dimezone instead of Metol you find tray life and capacity are vastly superior. Phenidone isn't inhibited by Bromide build up.

It's similar with commercial film developers ID-11/D76 is inefficient in machine processors (it was used) because you need to use a bleed system where you remove working developer and add sufficient replenisher to keep the bromide level under control, but eventually it collapses. Ilford introduced Autophen a PQ version of ID-11 and it could be replenished by topping up which is far more efficient and economic, plus the developer could be replenished for far longer, in one lab it was years. So this is another example of a Hard working developer.

When I began printing in the mid to late 1960's a tray of D163 would last less than a 2 hour session, PQ Universal will last a full day session with no deterioration.

Ian
Ian
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Old 14th July 2020, 07:56 AM
robinb robinb is offline
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Great Ian

thats really informative
i've ordered some PQ and some Superol to try

do you have any knowledge on ilford Phenisol
I would love to try that as well but the 10lt /100 minimum order is holding me back somewhat ...

best

robin
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