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  #21  
Old 18th November 2018, 02:54 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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I find it quite touching that the good folks of FADU are making all kinds of excuses for Mr. Nocon. It shows how friendly and considerate you all are.....well, we knew that anyway! So he might have been writing about colour printing. Or about graded papers, not Multigrade. He might have been advocating the use of a blue filter to counteract the focus-shift of cheap or poorly-made enlarging lenses. Or he might have simply got the blue filter thing wrong because he had defective vision.

Let's look at the facts. His book was published in 1987. Multigrade was well established then. In fact he discusses it extensively in the book. So he wasn't advocating the blue filter just for graded paper. And not for colour either. The book is about black & white printing. And he doesn't say the blue filter is a stop-gap measure for cheap or defective lenses. He was a professional printer, using the best lenses and actually stresses the need for high-quality lenses in the book. And if his eyesight was defective, then going into print with his blue filter recommendation without getting others to check it out, was a bit lax, to say the least.
When I first read his book, fairly soon after it came out, I was slightly horrified that all the prints I'd slaved away at making were possibly not as sharp as they might have been, because I'd not focussed with a blue filter. So I did some tests, and found that it made no difference. Later, when Elements came out, and Barry Thornton dismissed the blue filter idea, I felt slightly annoyed that Mr. Nocon had come up with this red herring.

Much more recently I realised than Gene Nocon was a businessman, and was actually intent on promoting himself and his F Stop Timer, which got chapter and verse in the book. Nothing wrong with F Stop timing, but he did seem to want to draw attention to his innovations so he could make money out of us photographers.
Some time ago someone on here posted a link to a Gene Nocon interview. He did come over as being rather full of himself, to say the least. I remember Big Paul posting that he turned him off after a couple of minutes.

So by all means try a blue filter for focussing. Far better to test things out for yourself than believing what you read. But don't be surprised if it makes no difference.

Alan
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  #22  
Old 18th November 2018, 07:21 PM
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Default Optical Illusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
I find it quite touching that the good folks of FADU are making all kinds of excuses for Mr. Nocon. It shows how friendly and considerate you all are.....well, we knew that anyway! So he might have been writing about colour printing. Or about graded papers, not Multigrade. He might have been advocating the use of a blue filter to counteract the focus-shift of cheap or poorly-made enlarging lenses. Or he might have simply got the blue filter thing wrong because he had defective vision.

Let's look at the facts. His book was published in 1987. Multigrade was well established then. In fact he discusses it extensively in the book. So he wasn't advocating the blue filter just for graded paper. And not for colour either. The book is about black & white printing. And he doesn't say the blue filter is a stop-gap measure for cheap or defective lenses. He was a professional printer, using the best lenses and actually stresses the need for high-quality lenses in the book. And if his eyesight was defective, then going into print with his blue filter recommendation without getting others to check it out, was a bit lax, to say the least.
When I first read his book, fairly soon after it came out, I was slightly horrified that all the prints I'd slaved away at making were possibly not as sharp as they might have been, because I'd not focussed with a blue filter. So I did some tests, and found that it made no difference. Later, when Elements came out, and Barry Thornton dismissed the blue filter idea, I felt slightly annoyed that Mr. Nocon had come up with this red herring.

Much more recently I realised than Gene Nocon was a businessman, and was actually intent on promoting himself and his F Stop Timer, which got chapter and verse in the book. Nothing wrong with F Stop timing, but he did seem to want to draw attention to his innovations so he could make money out of us photographers.
Some time ago someone on here posted a link to a Gene Nocon interview. He did come over as being rather full of himself, to say the least. I remember Big Paul posting that he turned him off after a couple of minutes.

So by all means try a blue filter for focussing. Far better to test things out for yourself than believing what you read. But don't be surprised if it makes no difference.

Alan


And just where do you think all that logic is going to get you, Alan? 😊


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  #23  
Old 18th November 2018, 07:41 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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I've no idea Brock. But it seems to have shut everyone else up!

Alan
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  #24  
Old 18th November 2018, 08:17 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Blue Filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
I find it quite touching that the good folks of FADU are making all kinds of excuses for Mr. Nocon. It shows how friendly and considerate you all are.....well, we knew that anyway! So he might have been writing about colour printing. Or about graded papers, not Multigrade. He might have been advocating the use of a blue filter to counteract the focus-shift of cheap or poorly-made enlarging lenses. Or he might have simply got the blue filter thing wrong because he had defective vision.

Let's look at the facts. His book was published in 1987. Multigrade was well established then. In fact he discusses it extensively in the book. So he wasn't advocating the blue filter just for graded paper. And not for colour either. The book is about black & white printing. And he doesn't say the blue filter is a stop-gap measure for cheap or defective lenses. He was a professional printer, using the best lenses and actually stresses the need for high-quality lenses in the book. And if his eyesight was defective, then going into print with his blue filter recommendation without getting others to check it out, was a bit lax, to say the least.
When I first read his book, fairly soon after it came out, I was slightly horrified that all the prints I'd slaved away at making were possibly not as sharp as they might have been, because I'd not focussed with a blue filter. So I did some tests, and found that it made no difference. Later, when Elements came out, and Barry Thornton dismissed the blue filter idea, I felt slightly annoyed that Mr. Nocon had come up with this red herring.

Much more recently I realised than Gene Nocon was a businessman, and was actually intent on promoting himself and his F Stop Timer, which got chapter and verse in the book. Nothing wrong with F Stop timing, but he did seem to want to draw attention to his innovations so he could make money out of us photographers.
Some time ago someone on here posted a link to a Gene Nocon interview. He did come over as being rather full of himself, to say the least. I remember Big Paul posting that he turned him off after a couple of minutes.

So by all means try a blue filter for focussing. Far better to test things out for yourself than believing what you read. But don't be surprised if it makes no difference.

Alan
I am not defending or attacking anyone, but I feel there must be something in the claim that a blue filter will help. Otherwise why did Peak who marketed the extremely good device think it necessary to include one in their sale of the devices.
Mine was bought second hand and it did not come with one so I cannot actually compare like for like, but to castigate a person, businessman or not for giving his views on what he found was an improvement is not really cricket - is it?
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  #25  
Old 18th November 2018, 08:48 PM
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I wonder if the Peak device had other intended uses, perhaps in graphic arts, or non-photographic printing processes. Perhaps even something that was nothing to do with printing? I’ve heard of loupes being described as thread counters. Could the blue filter have some use outwith photography?
Alex


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  #26  
Old 18th November 2018, 10:23 PM
John King John King is offline
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As far as I am aware these blue filters were not an ad hoc add on. I did handle one at a Trade Photographic Exhibition back around 1995 and these filters were made to clip on the actual focussing eyepiece. So what other use could they have.

This thread is starting to take on all the tones of a conspiracy theory! and I do not subscribe to these.
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  #27  
Old 18th November 2018, 10:53 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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I meant that the focusing device may have had another use where the blue filter was relevant.
Alex


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  #28  
Old 18th November 2018, 10:54 PM
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I can’t test the blue filter theory because I use a humble Scoponet. However, it sounds like pure marketing bollocks to me. Peak, on their own website, say the following:

2030
Eye-piece: 10x, 2-groups, 2-elements
Angle: 10°
Mirror: 43 x 25 mm
Size:65 x 140 x 140 mm

Accessory: BG filter (optional)
Accessory: BG filter (optional)
Use of the BG filter.
When you want to obtain more correct enlarging for the black and white film, use the focuser after fitting the BG filter to its eyepiece. The use of this filter will permit the coincidence between the wavelength sensitive to your eyes and that to be enlarged.

Now, if the blue filter (I’m assuming that’s what the BG filter is) is needed to get sharp focus then why is it “optional”? How many people bought the expensive Peak instrument without the blue filter unaware that they’ve all wasted their money? And how did all the other grain magnifier manufacturers stay in business so long when customers couldn’t get a sharp print with their products?

I wondered if the blue filter just made it easier to focus the grain rather than achieve greater accuracy but, from what people are saying, it reduces the light so much that it’s difficult to see that much at all with it.

I’m suspicious of this kind of thing - pyro developers, the Leica glow, Steve Sherman’s Power of Process - until someone shows me evidence that it makes a difference. Just claiming it works isn’t enough.


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  #29  
Old 19th November 2018, 12:49 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Your Mileage May Vary....
I have a friend who can hear to a phenomenal degree. He has to have a hi-fi that only he can put up with - I can't tell the difference. He spent more on that piece of kit than I spent on my house. (Really.) Just because he wouldn't play my favourite album on his juke box (meat loaf!) gives me no reason to castigate him. If I can't hear like he can, or IF I can't see the difference between blue filtered grain and white unfiltered grain, then for me the filter is optional. Try before you buy. If I don't need it, am I blind or blessed?
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  #30  
Old 19th November 2018, 01:21 PM
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You don’t need to be gifted with amazing eyesight, Jim. Just two comparison prints would tell you all you need to know.


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