Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Chemistry > Chemical formulae

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23rd October 2015, 10:47 AM
pentaxpete's Avatar
pentaxpete pentaxpete is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brentwood, Essex UK
Posts: 390
Default Making up 'Microphen' formula

I had a go to make up some'Microphen' film developer from the formula and saw it contained 'Sodium Tripolyphospate' which I took to be the 'water softening agent' as Geoffrey Crawley told me before he died NOT to use 'Supermarket CALGON' any more as it is no longer 'Sodium Hexametaphosphate' and the new formula would upset photographic developers -- so left it out and used boiled tap water filtered to get rid of dissolved Oxygen and some 'hardness' -- then formula contains 'Sodium Metabisulphite 0.65 gm' which I could not find in my chemical store so I used 'Sodium BI-sulphite' instead . On looking in the film box from my FP4 + dated 03/2005 I was going to use as a 'test' it said for Microphen 1+1 7 mins which I thought was a 'Bit Short' and Good Job I checked on www.digitaltruth.com massive developer chart as they gave 10 mins !! Well, I took tests rating film at 125ASA and it came out GREAT !! Very little Fog Level and definition under x6 magnifier very good from my 50mm f1.4 SMC Takumar on my SP F really good.
__________________
Computerised and Slightly DIGITISED but FILM still RULES with ME !
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23rd October 2015, 12:08 PM
paulc paulc is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nestled in the foothills of Norfolk.
Posts: 931
Default

Sodium Metabisulphite can usually be found anywhere that does home brewing equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23rd October 2015, 01:39 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,968
Default

Pete, I think you are saying that the Digital Truth time of 10 mins which you used and was right. So Ilford's own time of 3 mins less would have been way too short.

That's a 33% reduction! I wonder why Ilford has got a time so different and based on your experience so wrong as well?

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23rd October 2015, 02:31 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Midlands/Aegean
Posts: 1,988
Default

It's partly because Pete is making up Autophen and not Microphen.

Autophen was Ilford's PQ photo-finishing developer sold for automated large scale processing lines, essentially it's a PQ version of ID-11 but very much more robust as it's very significantly less affected by bromide build up and instead of bleed replenishment could also be used by topping up replenishment. Autophen is also know as the Axford-Kendal photofinishing developer.

Microphen is an entirely different formula.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23rd October 2015, 03:41 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,968
Default

Thanks Ian. That explains it. Some Ilford times may be "wrong" but not usually 33% wrong.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23rd October 2015, 03:55 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Midlands/Aegean
Posts: 1,988
Default

The Metabisulphite is only used in the commercial dry packaged versions of Autophen & Microphen in Part A to help prevent oxidation of the Developing agents. it's also used in Bromophen & I think Perceptol.

It's not an active ingredient in the working solution and breaks down to sulphite once the developer is mixed up.

The commercial version of ID-68 is Microphen and the two as well as the Repenishers are inter0changeable.

Unfortunately some US publications in the 1950's, particularly the Photo Lab Index assumed the Autophen formula published by Ilford was the same as Microphen, that was perpetuated in many other US publications which rather than use primary sources just used what was in the LAb Index which were full of errors.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23rd October 2015, 06:02 PM
pentaxpete's Avatar
pentaxpete pentaxpete is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brentwood, Essex UK
Posts: 390
Default

Thanks all : when Ilford first brought out 'Delta 400 Pro' I used some on a PR job and used the dev time as printed in the film box ( like in the FP4+ box) and I got some very 'THIN' negatives -- well I complained to Ilford and the reply was that 'early batches of the Delta 400 were a Little Slow' and they increased the dev time next time I looked ! I went by the word 'Microphen 1+1' in the FP4+ box and it definitely said 7 mins for 1+1 !
__________________
Computerised and Slightly DIGITISED but FILM still RULES with ME !
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23rd October 2015, 07:13 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,968
Default

Pete it would appear that Ilford has changed its position on times compared with the film box times. I hadn't considered this. The current Microphen spec sheet also says 10 mins for 1+1 so the "discrepancy" has gone

The lesson may be that users of old film in old boxes should check against current spec sheets instead of relying on film box info.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23rd October 2015, 08:14 PM
Rob Archer's Avatar
Rob Archer Rob Archer is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk - flatlands and big skies.
Posts: 1,243
Default

The formula I use for microphen is the one from The Darkroom Cookbook (#21) which is described as 'microphen-type'. I use the times given for Ilford Microphen and find it works fine. My personal taste is for a slightly higher contrast negative so I usually develop for 10% above the published times. The formula:

Water 52°C. 750ml
Sodium Sulphite (anh)100g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax 3g
Boric acid 3.5g
Potassium bromide 1g
Phenidone 0.2g
Cold water to 1litre

This is now my standard developer for faster films.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th October 2015, 08:38 AM
pentaxpete's Avatar
pentaxpete pentaxpete is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brentwood, Essex UK
Posts: 390
Default

Thanks for all you interesting replies -- I will see if I can attach links to my Microphen results-- all the details ate under the photos ---
https://flic.kr/p/zTo1ES
https://flic.kr/p/zTsDoe
https://flic.kr/p/AaXZwc
https://flic.kr/p/ze5DKH
https://flic.kr/p/A9Ngif
https://flic.kr/p/zdWnQ3
__________________
Computerised and Slightly DIGITISED but FILM still RULES with ME !
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Requesting open source Microphen formula ashfaque Chemical formulae 13 18th February 2015 09:22 AM
Ilford ID-11 & Microphen, Batch-Numbers Recall. Keith Tapscott. Manufactured brews 11 6th September 2010 05:05 PM
HP5/Microphen? Richard L Monochrome Film 7 15th July 2010 08:44 AM
Ilford Microphen - The Old Days Mike O'Pray Photography in general 15 10th April 2010 06:11 PM
Microphen Formula pentaxpete Chemical formulae 5 15th March 2009 08:50 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.