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  #11  
Old 4th October 2018, 07:24 PM
MattPitts MattPitts is offline
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Some examples taken with HP5+ at box speed
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Last edited by MattPitts; 4th October 2018 at 07:28 PM.
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  #12  
Old 4th October 2018, 07:48 PM
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Bob Bob is offline
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The title alone is enough to discount everything else under it. Ever seen anything online with a click-bait title that was actually worth reading?

Me neither.

Ultimately, his method works for him and he is happy with it - that is about all you can say. Magic-bullets, like magic-wands, do not exist. Also be aware he is scanning his negatives and photoshop provides much finer levels of localised contrast manipulation than the darkroom can provide. I can well imagine that exposing and developing a negative for scanning would have different considerations to traditional printing - I'm sure that must be well covered online, but as I do not scan my negatives, I have never investigated it.

If you learn the basic levers of film (exposure & development) and understand how adjusting either effects the negative then you are well on the way to working out what suits you best and how you can manipulate them for your required ends if you wish.

If you want to experiment, I would echo the advice to pick a single good quality film of 100 - 400 ISO (HP5+ is a good example) and a standard developer like ID-11/D-76 for your developer (but it does not really matter which developer - just pick one that does not promise super-douper-extra sharpness or micro-size grain as these will not always give typical results) and adjust exposure and developing times under different lighting conditions as suggested in previous posts.

Have fun!

Last edited by Bob; 4th October 2018 at 07:56 PM.
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  #13  
Old 4th October 2018, 08:24 PM
MattPitts MattPitts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
The title alone is enough to discount everything else under it. Ever seen anything online with a click-bait title that was actually worth reading?

Me neither.

Ultimately, his method works for him and he is happy with it - that is about all you can say. Magic-bullets, like magic-wands, do not exist. Also be aware he is scanning his negatives and photoshop provides much finer levels of localised contrast manipulation than the darkroom can provide. I can well imagine that exposing and developing a negative for scanning would have different considerations to traditional printing - I'm sure that must be well covered online, but as I do not scan my negatives, I have never investigated it.

If you learn the basic levers of film (exposure & development) and understand how adjusting either effects the negative then you are well on the way to working out what suits you best and how you can manipulate them for your required ends if you wish.

If you want to experiment, I would echo the advice to pick a single good quality film of 100 - 400 ISO (HP5+ is a good example) and a standard developer like ID-11/D-76 for your developer (but it does not really matter which developer - just pick one that does not promise super-douper-extra sharpness or micro-size grain as these will not always give typical results) and adjust exposure and developing times under different lighting conditions as suggested in previous posts.

Have fun!
Thanks Bob, I'll stick to my bedside reading of Basic photography techniques then :-) and keep practicing
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  #14  
Old 4th October 2018, 10:58 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Your examples suggest to me that box speed is giving you all the shadow detail you need

Mike
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  #15  
Old 5th October 2018, 12:01 AM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPitts View Post
Wow, thanks to everyone for your very helpful and informative replies. Need to go through everyones' replies carefully. But I going to do some experimenting as suggested by @mike O'pray. I'm also just using a starter developer kit from Tetenal at the moment. I think I will stick with one film stock and really get to know if before trying any others. What about developers? I have Paranol S currently. I was surprised how grainy the images look, but I guess I'm so used to seeing digital images, I'd forgotten the difference. I assume different developers and development times will have a bearing on the grain?

If you're not happy about grain there are a number of things you can do;
Use fine grain film
Use fine grain development
Use a larger negative film format
Use a diffuser enlarger if you're not using one at the moment
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  #16  
Old 5th October 2018, 08:05 AM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is offline
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I would think one of the biggest variables in determining exposure values is our own metering technique and the performance of our exposure meters. Whenever I have checked several exosure meters both in and seperate from the cameras none of them agree on the readings. No doubt the answer is to use a film speed which gives you negatives which you find easyist to print. I tend to photgraph contrasty scenes and err on the side of over exposure and find staining developers hold in the highlights as well as the shadow detail.
I have found that HP5 at 200ASA developed in PyrocatHD gives very pleasing prints with good tonal range.

Roger Hicks gives some basic advice. If your highlights are blocking up increase your film speed, if your shadows have no detail reduce your film speed.
If your negatives print with the contrast too high, grade 4 or 5, try reducing your film development by 10%, if your negatives print with the contrast too low try increasing your film development by about 25%.

Tony
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  #17  
Old 5th October 2018, 08:11 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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It's important to do your own film speed and development tests to get the best from a film.

I use HP5 but only for hand-held large format work, for finer grain with 120 films I use Delta 400, I develop both in Pyrocat HD. An alternative would be Tmax 400.

My EI changes depending on the lighting, a lot of contrast and where I need good shadow detail I shoot at 200 EI, lower contrast 400 EI and a slight adjustment in development time.

I think this is the point taht's missed "Expose for the shadows, develop for the high lights", that's all the Zone System is about just with some measurable parameters.

By getting the best exposure.development time combination you get much higher quality results in terms of fine grain, sharpness, and tonality.

Ian
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  #18  
Old 5th October 2018, 08:40 AM
JimW JimW is offline
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Quote:
Your examples suggest to me that box speed is giving you all the shadow detail you need
+1 from me.
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  #19  
Old 5th October 2018, 12:11 PM
Tom Kershaw Tom Kershaw is offline
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Just with a quick reference to scanning. I do scan negatives and T-Max / Delta films processed in XTOL work very well without any special adaptation, i.e I'm processing with the intention of optical printing.
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  #20  
Old 5th October 2018, 07:17 PM
Jerry Bodine Jerry Bodine is offline
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Lostlabours has said it! Absolutely, testing for film speed and dev times is the way to go.

Matt, I use HP5+ with Kodak HC-110 developer (the US version, not the Euro version). I chose HC-110 because of its extremely long shelf life (I doubt anyone has ever found it to go bad), which makes it the ideal developer for folks who only occasionally develop their film. I’ve done the Zone System testing for film speed and development times. I also use only spot meters and work only with sheet film. But I’d like to show you some of my test results in the hope you’ll gain some knowledge about the variables involved. There is much that can be learned by plotting the results. I’ve plotted my test results with the Zone System in mind. I should emphasize that these results are dependent on the agitation technique used. I believe similar trends would be obtained with roll film, although different development times would likely be needed. Grain issues are not normally experienced with sheet film unless negatives are enlarged to very high magnifications, so I can’t help much on that topic. I placed a Stouffer 31-step wedge in contact with the film in the holder for each test exposure. Note that the curves are plotted as Zone vs “Net Density”; that term represents the density value over and above the density caused by the film base + fog created by development. Film speed is indicated in the Zone System as Zone ONE net density of .10 and is frequently found to be less than ISO speed, thereby adding extra exposure to the film than using ISO speed. My test resulted in an Effective Index of 200, as shown in the attachment below.

The goal of the plots is to first identify a curve for Normal Development, one which passes through two points – Net Density .10 at Zone I & Net Density 1.30 at Zone VIII. So once EI is set (a result of exposure given), then the Zone VIII point is determined via total development time. It’s not necessary to do endless testing to find this curve; instead just do a series of dev times, then interpolate between the curves at Net Density 1.30 to determine the various dev times for N+ and N-. Illustrated below.
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Last edited by Jerry Bodine; 5th October 2018 at 07:26 PM.
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