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  #1  
Old 10th November 2020, 09:16 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default 'Pulling' B&W Film development

I have just 'acquired' a Leitz Focomat 1c enlarger on long term semi permanent loan and the normal contrast with the condenser system is to high (seriously too high!) so I would like to try exposing my film (a mix of FP4+, Kentmere and Fomopan 100) at either 80iso for the FP4+ and 64iso for the other 2.

I have looked and can get no definitive suggestions by what percentage I should reduce the development time to get a more easily printable softer negative - any suggestions please. In all my years developing film I have never thought about this so it is new ground for me.

My normal developer is either Microphen or ID11 diluted 1-1
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:11 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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John, I appreciate that what I am going to say will not help you but your post raises a question for me.

While there is clearly a contrast problem with the Leitz condenser system all the advice I have ever seen suggests that the film development time when switching from a diffuser to a condenser can be maintained and the ensuing print can be compensated by reducing the print grade by one.

In your case it sounds as if you get the film dev time right for the Leitz then you might run into the problem in reverse if you ever have to stop using the Leitz.

I have a vague feeling that Brock had or still has a Leitz Focomat 1c I wonder what he does?

Mike
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:04 PM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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By the sound of things John, a 10-20% drop in development time probably won't be enough, so I'd start with a 30% decrease and take it from there.
Also, hopefully your current film/developer combinations, will allow for a reduction in development time, without being too short.
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Old 11th November 2020, 08:14 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Development

I knew the contrast would be a little more obvious with the condenser enlarger but wasn't prepared for what a huge difference it actually is. It is unlikely I will revert to a diffuse enlarger and still use the LPL for colour printing.

I was printing on the new MGV and even using a G1 filter it wasn't what I was after and still needed a bit of burning in and the black did not seem to be quite so 'black',

I think I will have to do a series of clip tests each with a different time in the developer to see what suits so I will base these on the times MartyNL suggests. Actually the Ilford development chart does suggest times for FP4+ when exposed at 50iso which is a little too slow for my liking.
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Old 11th November 2020, 10:45 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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for the Fomapan, which is not a true 100 film, just develop as normal, for 200, which I rate at 125, and Fomapan 400, which I rate at 250, I use the same times in ID11 as for 200 and 400, and in Rodinal I find you need 17 minutes for 200 and 18 minutes for 400, which is the same as I would use for box speed for either films, for the FP4 and kentmere the start at 10 % less development and if that doesn't work then go to 20%
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Old 11th November 2020, 10:45 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Ilford used to publish times etc for Condenser and Diffuser enlargers, I just went out to my darkroom but oddly I don't have an old FP4 data-sheet.

Later more compact condenser enlargers like the Dursts M301/M601 are closer to diffuser enlargers in terms of contrast than the Focomat 1C and other old enlargers with the large lamp housings so Ilford dropped the information.

I did find the information elsewhere in an Ilford publication:

FP4

ID-11 Normal contrast 6½ mins High Contrast 10 mins
Microphen Normal Contrast 5 mins High Contrast 7½ mins

That's full strength and replenised

ID-11 1+1 NC 9 mins HC 14 mins
Microphen 1+1 NC 8 mins HC 13

Normal Contrast is for Condenser Enlargers
High Contrast is for Diffuser Enlargers

As you can see it's a development time of two thirds that for a Diffuser enlarger, you'll lose a third to half a stop film speed.

Ian
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Old 11th November 2020, 11:56 AM
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I take it that you are not using below the lens multigrade filters to counter the high contrast it is producing.
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Old 11th November 2020, 12:49 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by photomi7ch View Post
I take it that you are not using below the lens multigrade filters to counter the high contrast it is producing.
I have tried both types with no appreciable difference.

The enlarger did not come with the original Leitz lens so I am using my 50mm APO Rodagon which is a modern multi-coated lens and probably gives more contrast than the original did.

Not to worry, there is plenty of time to play until the 2nd December I will work something out.
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Old 11th November 2020, 04:19 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostlabours View Post
Ilford used to publish times etc for Condenser and Diffuser enlargers, I just went out to my darkroom but oddly I don't have an old FP4 data-sheet.

Later more compact condenser enlargers like the Dursts M301/M601 are closer to diffuser enlargers in terms of contrast than the Focomat 1C and other old enlargers with the large lamp housings so Ilford dropped the information.

I did find the information elsewhere in an Ilford publication:

FP4

ID-11 Normal contrast 6½ mins High Contrast 10 mins
Microphen Normal Contrast 5 mins High Contrast 7½ mins

That's full strength and replenised

ID-11 1+1 NC 9 mins HC 14 mins
Microphen 1+1 NC 8 mins HC 13

Normal Contrast is for Condenser Enlargers
High Contrast is for Diffuser Enlargers

As you can see it's a development time of two thirds that for a Diffuser enlarger, you'll lose a third to half a stop film speed.

Ian

Further to Ian's post, I have found a tech sheet for FP4 from 1981 and attached a couple of phone snaps of the relevant pages. The times vary slightly from Ian's. Note that this is for the old FP4, not Plus version, if that matters.

As Ian stated, Normal contrast is for condensor, High is for diffusion.

Hope this helps John.
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Old 11th November 2020, 05:42 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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I have always used condenser enlargers, so I suppose my negatives have become attuned to them. For 35mm I have a Leitz Valoy 11, and for medium format a Meopta Magnifax. They both deliver good contrast.
My preferred lighting for taking photographs is hazy sun, and my method with FP4 is designed to give negatives that will print on about grade 2.5 when taken in such lighting. I rate the film at half box speed and develop in ID11 diluted 1+2, for 12.5 minutes. This is classic "over-expose and under- develop". Because I am targetting hazy sun, if some frames are taken in strong sunshine, they will probably need grade 1.5. And if the sun goes in but it stays bright - or if I photograph entirely in the shade - then I might need grade 3.5 to make a print.
I also like Perceptol at 1+3 for 35mm FP4. This is used at 24 degrees C. for 12.5 minutes, and works for contrast exactly like ID11 as described above.

Hope this helps.

Alan
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