Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Chemistry > Manufactured brews

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd September 2016, 10:11 PM
big paul big paul is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: benfleet essex
Posts: 2,284
Default tetenal

I have done it again , I have bought something I have never used before and its got me confused (that's not hard)anyway bought a bottle of Tetenal ultrafin negative developer and I cannot understand the instructions ,for example I want to develop a roll Ilford FP4,1x10 dilution ,there are two dev times A and B , A says 5min and B says 8min,then at the bottom it says inversion agitation rhythm A=3sec. B=1min. I have always agitated the last 10seconds of every minute .any help ???.also whats it like is it any good ,I would like your opinion as well as your help..PS I have just looked at the massive chart for HP5 and it says continuous agitation at 4.5mins now I am stumped...


www.essexcockney.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4th September 2016, 08:30 AM
MartyNL's Avatar
MartyNL MartyNL is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: based in The Netherlands
Posts: 3,341
Default

I couldn't agree more Paul!

If I were you, I would go with the times in the Ilford data sheets which states 7mins 30secs HP5 and 7mins for FP4. I would do agitation as you do normally and go from there.

And the products I've used from Tetenal, I've been very pleased with.

Ilford data sheet links
www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20106281054152313.pdf

www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010712125850702.pdf
__________________
MartyNL

“Reaching a creative state of mind thru positive action
is considered preferable to waiting for inspiration.”
- Minor White, 1950

Last edited by MartyNL; 4th September 2016 at 08:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4th September 2016, 11:31 AM
big paul big paul is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: benfleet essex
Posts: 2,284
Default

thanks Marty I had a look and took some notes I have been looking at other sites for other film dev times ,these are the films I am using at the moment and the developing times I have found HP5=7mins30sec.. FP4=7mins.. Tmax 400=7mins... Fomapan 200=7mins30sec ... . And all these times are with Tetenal ultrafin , diluted 1x10 at 20c .
I have put the Ilford site on my favourites ,I did not think of looking there ,its funny that all the times seem similar just 30sec different.
I can probably trust the Ilford times but not sure about the others..



www.essexcockney.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4th September 2016, 03:34 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by big paul View Post
,there are two dev times A and B , A says 5min and B says 8min,then at the bottom it says inversion agitation rhythm A=3sec. B=1min. I have always agitated the last 10seconds of every minute .any help ???.also whats it like is it any good ,I would like your opinion as well as your help..PS I have just looked at the massive chart for HP5 and it says continuous agitation at 4.5mins now I am stumped...


www.essexcockney.com
Like you I cannot make any sense of this and yet Tetenal have been selling in the English speaking market for years so "poorly translated from German" seems unlikely. It is as if something from the original German has been omitted completely by mistake.

I wonder what the explanation is? Maybe our German friends whose command of English is superb can help?

I am curious about this matter now.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4th September 2016, 04:44 PM
photomi7ch's Avatar
photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 2,516
Default

I always use my standard inversion method no matter what film developer I use apart from PMK Pyro and it has not let me down. When in doubt stick with what you know.
__________________
Mitch

http://photomi7ch.blogspot.com/

If you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th September 2016, 07:35 PM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,318
Default Tetenal

I have found a few anomolies with Tetenal in the past. My last encounter with a 'strange' instruction was with one of their E6 kits where the 1st development time for E6 film was, if I remember correctly 6.5 mins, but if it was a film made by Fuji then it had to have a 5% increase.

This was just after the reintroduced Agfa Precisia hit the shops - was it a Fuji film in disguise or made elsewhere. At the time no one would or could say with any authority so I processed it as a non Fuji film and it was fine.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th September 2016, 01:24 PM
Svend Svend is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Default

The answer seems to here:

https://www.fotografie-in-schwarz-we...-bewegung.html

Paragraph 4 talks about inversion rhythm (kipprythmus):

3 sec. rhythm means once every 3 seconds
1 min. rhythm means continuous for first 30 sec., then 3 times every minute thereafter.

I looked through the Tetenal data sheets and there is no explanation of this at all in the German text. I presume this is the same tech doc you were referring to: http://www.tetenal.com/imaging_shop/images/00001809.pdf
Table 1d....right?

Hope this helps. Let know if you need any other translation

Cheers,
Svend
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th September 2016, 04:37 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Paragraph 4 talks about inversion rhythm (kipprythmus):

3 sec. rhythm means once every 3 seconds
1 min. rhythm means continuous for first 30 sec., then 3 times every minute thereafter.

Cheers,
Svend
Thanks Svend. That seems to make sense. If you invert every 3 secs then that is more or less slow continuous inversion which usually reduces development time by 20% but this is a reduction from 8 mins to 5 mins, using the second inversion rhythm, which is 37.5% which is very large indeed. Ilford quotes 15%. I have seen 20% quoted by users of continuous agitation but cannot recall seeing a bigger reduction in time.

One inversion every 3 secs is a little less that continuous agitation speed on a Jobo processor so maybe that accounts for the difference but my "gut feeling" still says that if 8 mins is correct for inversion type B then 5 mins for inversion type A might leave negs a little thin

We need someone to try both methods and times. Any volunteers?

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 5th September 2016, 05:29 PM
Svend Svend is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Default

Interesting that this is written in a general guide to developing technique, and not in Tetenal's literature. And that it differs slightly from methods in the English-speaking world. Makes one wonder how the method came about in Germany - as generally accepted practice by the community, or from manufacturers like Tetenal? Maybe our German friends can tell us... Me, I'm just a transplanted German living across the pond .

Cheers,
Svend
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 5th September 2016, 08:59 PM
big paul big paul is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: benfleet essex
Posts: 2,284
Default

thanks for all your help ,you would think that Tetenal would put some times to some films Ilford do , and Ilford's times are quite good ,this has surprised me ,but I will try it and see how it goes. the problem at the moment is as I haven't been well for a while and I haven't been out on my disability scooter to shoot any film ,but I am having a birthday party this Sunday at home so I will take some photos then ,its the big sixty ,at lest I get my medication for free . more money for film.:-)

www.essexcockney.com
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New developers from Tetenal Miha New products and offers 33 4th January 2016 01:40 PM
Tetenal C41 Kit RichardWarom Sale or Wanted 5 8th December 2015 05:56 AM
Tetenal Vario fix wiesmier Photography in general 4 9th April 2012 05:41 PM
Tetenal Eukobrom Paulographic Monochrome printing techniques 4 27th January 2012 03:21 PM
Tetenal C41 kit 1L, swap for something more useful :) Puggie Sale or Wanted 0 6th April 2011 12:16 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.