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  #51  
Old 28th November 2020, 04:57 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Okay, since my last post I have been doing a lot more test strips. I am now more than happy to use the 50 watt UV light that I bought for all of this, as it's solid and gives me reliable results, unlike the sun at this time of year.

The test strips, done on both the front and back of papers, with some dipped or coated in various chemicals that I have read about and have around the house. Overall I have found that none of them really help with the intensification of the colour blue apart from citric acid, but having done my last test with it, I am now even unsure about that.

So, after dozens of test strips, I have finally decided it's time to do some A5 sized cyanotypes. As I had good results with the test strips with Daler Rowney Aquafine watercolour paper 300 gsm, I decided to use that first, as it is easy to get and well priced. I bought a 12 sheet A4 pad on Ebay UK, as my local art shop is currently closed, for just under £7.00 including p/p.

I coated some of the paper the night before, giving them two coats of the combined cyanotype liquids, with a bristle brush. In the bathroom I coated in one direction, leaving a small margin around the paper. I then left it for about half an hour to soak in and nearly dry. I then made a second coat, in the other direction. Although the room is quite dim, I coated the papers in a 10" x 8" darkroom dish, which I had lined with newspapers. I then placed another up turned
dish of the same size as a lid. Be warned that however careful you feel you may have been during the coating, you will definitely find spots and splashes of blue on surfaces, the next morning. As I did the coating over the sink, this was where they were to be found. Luckily they washed off easily. Be warned that you should wear older 'gardening' clothes, for if the liquid gets on them, it will stain and I'm not sure if it will come out!

The following day, I set up my UV light, then arranged some coins on two pieces of A5 paper, which I then slid underneath the light, before turning it on. I have currently settled on a 15 minute exposure, as that has given me a good result on test strips, although I might test with slightly less exposure in the future. Immediately after exposure, the coins were taken off. There was a definite shadow of colour where the coins hadn’t been.

A number of 5 minute rinses were then done in cold water the sink, until the paper that received no exposure looked like a fresh piece of paper. One piece was then put into a tray of 4% solution of citric acid, as this is supposed to intensify the colour quicker, with a similar effect to bathing it in hydrogen peroxide. On tests this seemed to work, but with the A5 sheet, the blue tone definitely lightened slightly - totally the opposite to what had happened previously. Luckily upon drying, both sheets of A5 dried to the same colour.

Based on this result, I am now trying out three other 300 gsm watercolour papers, some of which I already had to hand, as I do watercolour painting as a hobby as well. I have coated the front sides of the papers twice, and will give them all the same 15 minute exposure. I’m doing this as some of the initial test strips of different papers resulted in slightly different colours.

So, what have I learnt so far?

1. Don’t bother using laser, inkjet or cartridge papers, which are just too lightweight. The colours are very weak and lighten dramatically in the wash, but most importantly tear and fall apart in the wash water.

2. Although I am going to do just one or two more tests, the much cheaper option of UV light that I bought is just not powerful enough to produce results worth keeping. So if you are interested in doing this, I would highly recommend the 50 watt UV light originally recommended by Roy H. The instructions with it state that there are other models in 10 to 150 watt units as well, but I’m very happy with the one I bought.

3. I have found the best results are obtained by only coating the front surface of the papers and not dipping, coating or soaking them in any other liquids except the wash water.

I have only one more print to show you at the moment, of which I made two, one of which was sent to CambsIan with a print for Print Exchange Round 123.

As before I will update this thread after I have produced some more work with the other papers that I am trying out.

Terry S
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  #52  
Old 29th November 2020, 12:35 AM
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Good to hear (and see) that you're getting positive results Terry.

A couple of comments: it is my understanding that the main function of the weak citric acid bath (I use a 2%) is simply to offset the alkalinity of the tap water which, if used as the first rinse, can weaken the prussian blue formation.
A plain water rinse to remove all traces of the ferricyanide is then followed by the optional hydrogen peroxide rinse to provide the oxygen needed to intensify the blue, a process that will occur naturally over a few days anyway.

If you get blue stains on anything, even fabric or furnishings, then see my previous mention of sodium bicarbonate (20% w/v solution) as a means of totally removing all traces. You can even re-use the paper of failed prints by 'bleaching' them in this solution, neutralising with a weak citric or oxalic acid solution then washing thoroughly. Further evidence that alkaline wash water will weaken the blue formation.

As an aside, I bought a different (cheaper) 300gm paper (Officetree Aquarell Block) which has turned out to be totally useless. It has poor wet strength and obviously contains some chemical treatment that reacts with the sensitising solution - the paper dries a greyish-yellow as opposed to pure yellow and the image produced is flat and lifeless, with little colour. I suspect optical brighteners are the cause as the paper actually fluoresces under UV light, which neither the Daler nor the Scribble & Dot (my current fave) do.
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  #53  
Old 29th November 2020, 10:16 AM
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Very interesting points about the paper type / weight, it's looking like weight is not the main factor when choosing, but it's ability to withstand the immersion in water.

Something to really think about.

The kit that I have coming for Xmas was bought from Silverprint and contains this paper

https://bergger.com/bergger-cot-320....ore=bergger_fr

and is available from First Call

https://www.firstcall-photographic.c...ck-of-25/p6633

Think that will be my staring point

Ian
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  #54  
Old 29th November 2020, 01:32 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy_H View Post
If you get blue stains on anything, even fabric or furnishings, then see my previous mention of sodium bicarbonate (20% w/v solution) as a means of totally removing all traces.

As an aside, I bought a different (cheaper) 300gm paper (Officetree Aquarell Block) which has turned out to be totally useless. It has poor wet strength and obviously contains some chemical treatment that reacts with the sensitising solution - the paper dries a greyish-yellow as opposed to pure yellow and the image produced is flat and lifeless, with little colour.
Roy, I did read your previous post, but I never thought of using the bicarbonate to remove a stain on clothing. The stains are on an old 'gardening and painting' top, so it's not really important, but I will give it a go anyway to see.

It's also interesting what you say about one 300 gsm paper that you have used, turning out to be no good when used. I have not read anything to date, about paper of this weight having a bad wet strength, so this is interesting to note. I have read quite a lot on the web about peoples successes and failures with different papers of this weight, and I think that I have obviously been lucky with my choices of papers so far. For apart from the laser / inkjet paper, I have had good results with test strips with some of the papers that I have, both in colour and strength whilst wet.

I have coated some other brands of paper, and hopefully tomorrow, I will expose them and see how they turn out and if they too can be put on the list of successes or not.

I also find it interesting that your sensitizing solution '...dries a greyish-yellow as opposed to pure yellow...' When I mix my two chemicals together my liquid goes to a shade of dark green, which then dries in various colours on different papers. As I only made up small amounts of the liquids initially, I have nearly used it all up. I will therefore be mixing a fresh batch soon. I will then make a point of checking what colour the liquids become when mixed together and applied to paper. It will be interesting to see if they are different in anyway, when compared to the ones I am currently using. I will also photograph the papers just before they are exposed to show you what I mean and will also show pictures of the results after washing and drying them.

Terry S
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  #55  
Old 29th November 2020, 01:52 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CambsIan View Post
Very interesting points about the paper type / weight, it's looking like weight is not the main factor when choosing...

The kit that I have coming for Xmas...contains this paper...and is available from First Call.

Think that will be my staring point

Ian
Yes, I was quite surprised by Roy's comment about the 300gsm paper as well Ian.

The paper you mention states that it is good for use with cyanotypes, so that's good to know. The price of the paper that you mention is also on par with the ones that I have bought from ebay UK sellers, that is until the dreaded p/p, which in this case is another £7.99, so I would only contemplate it from them if I was making a bigger order.

Terry S
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  #56  
Old 24th December 2020, 05:59 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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OK, I have continued to do more cyanotype tests, when I have had the time, and here are a few further notes from these tests.

As mentioned previously, not all 300 gsm papers are suitable for cyanotypes, so when one finds a good paper, stick with it! I have tried four papers, making test cyanotypes with A5 size cut papers. The wet strength was good with all four of them, but as one can see on the attached picture, only one paper could be guaranteed to give good results each time. This paper, I have mentioned before in my comments, and is Daler-Rowney Aquafine 300 gsm watercolour paper. It is a lovely thick and smooth paper, that is easy to coat. Note that the first paper of the four in the picture, Bockingford, (top left) looks quite good on the screen, but it has slight colour leaching into the white areas, as does another (bottom right) and the one bottom left, blue leached out of the paper, leaving an uneven shade of blue.

I have found the sensitizing liquid produces the best colour, if the twice coated paper, is left for at least two days to dry and mature, before exposure. I have tried coating both sides and the front definitely give the better results. After the two liquids have been mixed, (which should be used ASAP after mixing), I coated the paper twice with it, once in each direction (horizontal and vertically), leaving the first coat for at least half an hour to dry before re-coating in the opposite direction. I have tried both a sponge stick brush (from my local shop ‘The Works') and a two inch soft bristle brush (a packet of two cost me £1 from the pound shop). Out of the two, I personally preferred using the brush, mainly because so much sensitizing liquid was left and therefore wasted, in the sponge at the end of coating any paper.

I have attached a picture of the four coated but unexposed papers, to show the range of colours that each paper produces before exposure and then washing.

I also returned to trying out the cheaper initial bulb that CambsIan recommended, but with the GREEN AFC chemical this time, along side the BROWN AFC again, that I initially bought. This time I used the recommended paper above for both exposures. Mid blue tones started to appear at 60 minutes on the green AFC coated paper, with the bulb positioned ten inches above the paper. So CambsIan, I would use this as a starting point and would be interested to read about your tests and results. The brown was also retested at the same time, but never gave anything worth repeating. But, having read that some people have had good results, with longer exposures than the green, so I will try the brown AFC again in the future. When I do though, it will be exposed under the more expensive, but much stronger, LED UV lamp that I have also purchased, as mentioned in previous posts.

One other item that came to mind earlier, is a totally different product, that I bought a while ago now. I used it a couple of times and have then forgotten about it. If I recall, it is quite a thick solution, similar to poster paint. It is a one solution product, that can be used straight from the squeezy bottle, and can be used with a brush to coat paper and T-shirts etc. The product gives a similar blue effect to a cyanotype, although I’m not sure if that is how it is named. It is in my darkroom at the back of the garden, so I will check it out when I am next in there. In the meantime I have attached two pictures that I made with it when first bought. One copy of the two was sent as part of a FADU print exchange, so I will try to find the letter that I sent with it and report back. All that I do remember, is that the exposures were made outside, on a bright sunny day.

And a final point, check out this link, for it makes an interesting read and shows how one other person is using the process:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/blo...al-cyanotypes/

Until the next post...

Terry S
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Last edited by Terry S; 24th December 2020 at 06:09 PM.
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  #57  
Old 26th December 2020, 02:31 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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And when you get inspired and create something, you may wish to start selling it.

Check out these pieces and their prices; although remember putting stuff up for sale doesn't mean you are going to get some of these prices!

https://www.kindofcyan.com/shop

Terry S
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  #58  
Old 7th January 2021, 04:22 PM
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Default The Journey Begins

Well the journey begins here.

Just assembled my lamp and coated my first pieces of paper, just going to let them dry overnight.

Will let you know how it goes, fingers crossed.

Many thanks to Terry and Roy for all their posts which I'm hoping will help me avoid a few mistakes.

Thanks for the tip about the "splash" when coating the paper, a left over turkey tray that was not needed at Christmas has made a perfect painting enclosure

I have attached a couple of snaps of my new toys.

Ian
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  #59  
Old 7th January 2021, 04:58 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CambsIan View Post
I have attached a couple of snaps of my new toys.

Ian
The box kit that you have Ian, looks great!

It's interesting to see your coated paper being a limey green, (which I think mine was when I first mixed the chemicals), but the more sludgy colour that I showed on one of my posts are totally different, but still work, so that's fine by me.

I was curious to see which lamp was in the kit, and it will be interesting to see how long your initial exposures have to be to get a decent blue with it? Is there an info leaflet or something to tell you details like this?

Have fun and keep us all informed.

Terry S
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Old 7th January 2021, 05:16 PM
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Hi Terry,

Unfortunately there are no instructions of any description with the lamp, not even how to put it together, but that was straight forward.

The only clue I have is on the web site where I bought it from, in their description they say about 15 minutes (with the usual caveats).

I forgot to let the first coat dry before applying the second coat as you suggest, but will see how it turns out. The one and half sheets of 8 x 10 used a total of 8ml "jollop" so looks like my 600ml will do quite a few sheets

So first thing will be a test strip, I reckon half the small strip at 5 min intervals will do as a starter.

Ian
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Last edited by CambsIan; 7th January 2021 at 05:24 PM.
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