Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > General discussions > Photography in general

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14th March 2021, 04:08 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,795
Default Are you getting maximum black on your prints?

During a darkroom session the other day, I was making some prints on some Ilford FB matt paper, with some freshly mixed and diluted D72 developer, that has become a bit of a favourite recently. I first tried it just a little while ago now, after I unexpectedly run out of my usual go to paper developer, Ilford multigrade, which I've used for years now.

The prints were given the usual 2 minutes in the developer and I was happy with the prints as they came out of the fixer. With the white light put on I could see how they'd look dry, as I'm used to dry down and know the effect it can have, especially with this paper.

But, for whatever the reason was, I thought, what would happen if I give the paper an extra minute, taking the development time to the edge of what Ilford recommends?

Well, was I surprised! Even wet from the fixer, I could tell that the blacks were darker than before. It wasn't a big jump when the prints were dry, but there was a noticeable difference - and I liked it!

Ilford say one can develop for yet a few more minutes if required, but I'll be sticking with the new time of 3 minutes now, for my FB matt prints at least.

I've rechecked the times given for RC papers, and they quote a minute. But when I'm next in the darkroom, out of curiosity if nothing else, I'm going to give any paper I use, whether that be FB or RC, just a little bit longer development and then compare them to ones done for the recommended time.

So, just asking - are you getting the maximum black out of your papers? And when was the last time you checked?

Terry S
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th March 2021, 04:34 PM
Rob Archer's Avatar
Rob Archer Rob Archer is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk - flatlands and big skies.
Posts: 1,243
Default

I've always found FB papers need a bit longer to get maximum black, as well as detail in the highlights. I usually use either Bromophen or home-brewed ID78 at 20 degC with both FB Classic (glossy) and Warmtone FB semi-matt. RC papers develop to completion at about 1m30s whereas I find FB papers need 3 minutes. If I haven't been in the darkroom for a while I usually test everything, including a max black test. If I'm doing a long session I'll retest the dev after about 20 prints just to check. I find I can usually get up to 30 10x8 FB prints out of a litre of working-strength dev although I rarely do that many in a session.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14th March 2021, 05:28 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,968
Default

Yes that periodic check such as in 20 print check is worthwhile. When developer starts to exhaust it sort of creeps up on you I have found unless you compare the last print with the first. Ilford MG developer which is my usual and has been for years can actually produce prints of a kind for much longer than you imagine and it is easy towards the end of a longish printing session to lose focus on the resulting prints

There's a case, I think, for developing chemicals that instead of their life slowly and peacefully drawing to a gentle close, suddenly took a serious turn for the worse that could not be ignored - a bit like a chemical heart attack


Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14th March 2021, 05:48 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Jersey Channel Islands
Posts: 5,433
Default

I have always found that 3 minutes gives that much better blacks, especially with ilford, even with the Rc paper I have found that bit extra gives that much better blacks, I tend to develop RC for 1 1/2 to 2 minutes whatever developer, I use
Richard
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14th March 2021, 09:12 PM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,318
Default Maximum blacks

I will go along with Richard on this although I don't leave the prints in the dev for as long as 3 mins.

I have found the new MG5 is much better than the old MG4 in this respect and normally I extend the development to 1 minute instead of 45 seconds
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14th March 2021, 10:26 PM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,282
Default

Ilford give two minutes development time for PQ developer at 1+9 for RC papers. It is in their information sheet for paper developers on their website but does not appear on the information sheet found in the box’s of resin papers which gives one minute.
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th March 2021, 12:58 AM
Bob's Avatar
Bob Bob is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London(ish)
Posts: 2,746
Default

Yeah, soon as I saw "2 minutes" I though I knew where this was going - 3 minutes is the minimum I give MGIV FB in most developers - in Neutol WA @ 1+9 it gets 4 minutes. Always worth testing all paper and developer combinations you use. A rough guide I use is 4 times the time to start to show the shadows as it develops, but that is only a very rough guide.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th March 2021, 07:29 AM
Stocky Stocky is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Yeah, soon as I saw "2 minutes" I though I knew where this was going - 3 minutes is the minimum I give MGIV FB in most developers - in Neutol WA @ 1+9 it gets 4 minutes. Always worth testing all paper and developer combinations you use. A rough guide I use is 4 times the time to start to show the shadows as it develops, but that is only a very rough guide.
I use ID-78 since Neutol-WA is no longer available (here at least). Being a bit impatient, I tried using it more concentrated, or warmer in my Nova vertical slot system in order to get away with less than at least 3 minutes, but I got staining, so back to 3+ minutes.

I couldn't agree more with experimenting. Don't add a few 10s of seconds, go for minutes and see what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th March 2021, 08:29 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Midlands/Aegean
Posts: 1,988
Default

With Warmtone papers warmth is controlled by choice of developer and exposure and development time. So for greater warmth we cut development eith by time or greater dilution and increase exposure slightly, we aren't aiming for a maximum black.

If you over develop a warmtone paper you are killing the warmth.

RC paper while no longer Developer incorporated like the original Ilfospeed still have something in the emulsion to aid rapid development hence the shorter recommended development times compared to their Fibre based equivalents.

It was generally unknown that the first generation of Ilfospeed was developer incorporated and I was give an old Ilfoprint roller transport machinein the 1980's. I tried the Ilfoprint Activator but the results weren't perfect results then I mixed my own activator, essentially just Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Sulphite and Potassium Bromide, instead of Stabilizer I used Hypam at 1+4. It developed and fixed Ilfospeedprints in under 30 seconds.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15th March 2021, 08:58 AM
MartyNL's Avatar
MartyNL MartyNL is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: based in The Netherlands
Posts: 3,341
Default

My lesson has been, not to keep the print in the developer unnecessarily long.
I only use FB paper for printing other than for contacts and
I used to give 3 minutes in my Nova processor as standard but found I was often getting muddy highlights and consistently dark, heavy prints, especially when dried.
These days, I prefer to give just 90 seconds and no more than 120 seconds in fresh(er) developer. For me, it gives deep 'enough' blacks whilst maintaining separation in the mid-tones and brilliance in the highlights. I also feel this leads to a greater variety in prints giving more room to softness, delicacy and subtlety in interpretation.
I bought some books by Eddie Ephraums only to discover his way of printing conflicted with my own. My taste is for prints with a less overly processed and manipulated look and feel.

Each to their own, I guess!
__________________
MartyNL

“Reaching a creative state of mind thru positive action
is considered preferable to waiting for inspiration.”
- Minor White, 1950
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Image maximum sizes now: 1MB, 1400 pixels per side Bob Help! 11 8th January 2023 10:53 AM
Colour Negatives Black & White Prints JaneWessex Darkroom 8 23rd October 2017 08:20 PM
Oil paints on black and white prints Terry S Photography in general 11 21st January 2014 02:08 PM
Do digital, colour or black and white, prints sell better than darkroom prints. Mark Burley Business Matters 51 20th September 2013 02:47 PM
Removing Black Spots from Prints Martin Aislabie Monochrome printing techniques 9 25th November 2010 03:49 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.