Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   Keyphoto   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   RK Photo   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies   Silverprint Ltd

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Equipment > Darkroom

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16th March 2022, 03:36 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,439
Default Problems with Bulk Loader

A post on Photrio prompted me to have a look at my Jessops Bulk Loader. It's basically an AP Bobinquick loader but AP also made the exact same loader for Kaiser and Jessops and possibly others.

I have yet to use this loader but while examining it last night I noticed a problem. The film crank handle has a slot in the middle which fits into the cassette and performs the same function as other types of loaders' crank handles except that in AP's case there is a protuding piece of plastic or more likely metal inside the hole through which crank slides. This protrusion is tapered as is the middle of the crank handle and it looks as if taper on the handle pushes the tapered protrusion back into the hole in the loader's outer case until the non-tapered part of the crank meets the protrusion when it is held out of the way, allowing the crank handle to turn.

In my case the protrusion is partially stuck and the handle's taper cannot force it back into its retreat so I cannot use the crank handle. Until I get this to work the loader is at best an ornament

I assume that there is a spring mechanism behind the protrusion that is too stiff or stuck. The protrusion has a little "give" in it but not enough to be fully pushed in all the way

So any ideas as to what I might use to help ease the spring that keeps the protrusion out?. It looks as if a spray or small dropper of some kind of releasing fluid might do the trick but which might be the safest kind?

I have some dry chain lube or isopropyl alcohol

As I said it looks to be metal and I assume the spring behind it to be metal

Ideally there is someone on FADU who has got this kind of loader and may have had a similar problem but if not any ideas on a suitable lubricant?

To help explain what the problem is I have attached a video and the crank part comes at 8 mins 40 secs

He doesn't mention the protrusion but none of the similar videos on the same loaders do either unfortunately

Anyway here's the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PXgjLtw4DA

Thanks for any help you can give

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16th March 2022, 06:17 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 2,468
Default

Mike, I have the AP version which I use quite often. The metal part you are referring to is part of the interlock mechanism which prevents the film loading chamber opening when it is in use. The crank will not push into the opening unless the chamber door is closed. Have you tried closing the lid, then pushing the crank into place? You don’t need a cassette in it to do this. It should slide in and turn, but not when the lid is open.
I hope that helps. I would be reluctant to introduce any fluid lubricant to the mechanism as it would be quite close to the film cassette.
Alex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16th March 2022, 07:42 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
Mike, I have the AP version which I use quite often. The metal part you are referring to is part of the interlock mechanism which prevents the film loading chamber opening when it is in use. The crank will not push into the opening unless the chamber door is closed. Have you tried closing the lid, then pushing the crank into place? You don’t need a cassette in it to do this. It should slide in and turn, but not when the lid is open.
I hope that helps. I would be reluctant to introduce any fluid lubricant to the mechanism as it would be quite close to the film cassette.
Alex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thanks for the reply. Can I clarify a few things

1.When you speak of the the film loading chamber I take it you are referring to the lid on top with the yellow warning label in 4 languages?

2. When you close this lid does the metal protrusion retract? It does not on mine.

3. If it retracts then why is there a need for the crank to have a tapered middle section? By this I mean that the end of the crank which goes into the end of the cassette spool is open for 6mm then the inner centre starts and tapers outward on both sides until in about another 6 mm it is the same width as the rest of the crank remains the same thickness for about another 9-10 mm when the actual handle starts.

The tapered middle section of the crank is also tapered on both sides. This has a direct opposed taper so as you push it this taper would seem to be designed to push in the middle protrusion in the middle of the crank hole thus allowing the solid part of the crank to rotate and wind the bulk film into the cassette

Have a look at the video. Towards the end of it at 8 mins 49 secs the guy is able to press the handle fully, claiming it clicks at this point which it seems to. I had assumed that the click is when the solid part of the crank is pressed into its opening

What prevents the cassette loading chamber lid from being opened is the crank which is through the hole in the chamber lid.

The metal protrusion does not move when the chamber lid is either lowered shut or lifted open

Thanks

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th March 2022, 10:53 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,439
Default

Here's what I found by accident while conducting a further search via Google

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Thanks Larry. Instructions are very useful. Initially I couldn't turn the crank and thought I might have a duff machine but it was simply that you have to push it in quite forcibly to free the mechanism that in effect opens the light tight shutter and closes tightly on the film when the crank is extracted so you have a foolproof mechanism.


Mike
So a bit of progress, Alex. It was my 2011 FADU post on the Jessops/AP loader

So to cut a long story short the protrusion is the failsafe mechanism and it was difficult to operate in 2011 and even more so now

The crank is designed to push the protrusion into its box, so to speak, which allows the crank to fully go home and pull the bulk film into the loader. So having managed it in 2011 I tried again and eventually managed to push the crank handle home.

However the protrusion has stuck in the "withdrawn position" so until I can free it the gate on the light trap will be open

So back to my original question what kind of lubricant might be best for freeing it? It should push in with less effort than I had to use and should automatically pop out again on withdrawal of the crank

Any ideas , anyone

Thanks

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th March 2022, 09:19 AM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 587
Default

Do not use iso-propyl alcohol on untested plastic.

I cleaned a fax machine with an iso-propyl wipe. The sort of sachet thing you get in first aid kits to clean around cuts etc..

It melted the plastic. Fortunately I managed to restore the surface to a sort of grained finish by wiping with a couple of fresh wipes in one direction only.
You could easily end up welding the plastic internals using iso..

Cheers.
__________________
It will all be over by Christmas.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th March 2022, 10:10 AM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 2,468
Default

I have film in my loader at the moment, so it’s difficult to properly examine the mechanism. I can’t see any easy way of reaching the spring part in order to lubricate it. It might be possible to give it a gentle nudge with a bit of stiff wire, or similar, to see if it can be freed. It’s the kind of mechanism that I would try to ‘work’ several times to free it. Pushing the visible part in a few times might get it going.
Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17th March 2022, 11:58 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,439
Default

Thanks both There isn't any way I can see either of lubricating the spring easily but some kind of a spring it must be to make it pop back out when the crank is removed

Yes, Alex, last night I did try and "work" it by the crank and was successful once in that I had to then
prise the protrusion back out afterwards and it took a few minutes but the second time I gave up

It might be that the likes of dry lube bike chain oil spray will be safest but no-one so far can say.

I cannot see it making things any worse so I think I am going to have to try something

The nature of the plastic doesn't look as if it would be damaged by isopropyl alcohol but even it does no harm there is nothing in it that does other than clean so some form of oil may be required for lubrication.

I have some very light clock oil which is applied by a syringe so no more than a drop can be given

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18th March 2022, 06:49 AM
Keith Haithwa Keith Haithwa is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 60
Default

A silicone based lubricant is normally required for plastic to plastic surfaces Mike but as a temporary measure I have had a lot of success with Pledge furniture polish.

Spray a dollop of the polish onto a a jar lid or the like, wait for the solvent to evaporate then pick up a small amount of the residue with a toothpick or similar and apply it to the protrusion in the crank hole then work the protrusion to get the polish into the protrusion housing. Use only the smallest amout to get the job done, you don't want anything other than film to get into the inner chamber. Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18th March 2022, 11:09 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,439
Default

Thanks all for advice. I can now report success. I did as Alex Muir advised and just tried pushing the crank handle home and after a few moments it went fully home and more importantly on withdrawal the protrusion which closes the light trap popped out

I tried this several more times and it continued to work so I think the problem was simply lack of use

As I said a Google search on Jessops(AP) loaders turned up my original thread in 2011 here on FADU which I had completely forgotten about. It was clear in that 2011 thread that the protrusion that the crank handle pushes in, was stiff but worked. However I have never used the Jessops from that day since so my conclusion is stiffness from lack of use

I forget where I got the loader from(e-bay?) and I suspect that the seller had either made little or no use of it so when I got it had hardly been used. He might have even made it his business to visit several Jessops' stores before their closure and bought up new loaders with a view to onward sale later so it was never used at all.

Keith, I'll make a note of your suggestion as the ridged button you pull down to restart the film footage dial when inserting a fresh bulk roll is also very stiff. I had to wiggle it a bit with a flat bladed screwdriver in the slot to get it to return to the start (S position) so that needs a bit of work as well but I got it to work

So a big thanks to you,Alex, for your advice to persevere

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18th March 2022, 12:12 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 587
Default

I found this. Never know if you misplace the handle one day, and have to buy a new one.

https://www.macodirect.de/en/film/fi...inquick-junior


Cheers.
__________________
It will all be over by Christmas.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   Keyphoto   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   RK Photo   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies   Silverprint Ltd

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Füllfix bulk loader Michael Equipment miscellaneous 1 9th August 2021 01:48 PM
[Wanted] Füllfix bulk loader Michael Sale or Wanted 0 26th March 2021 05:06 PM
Bulk loader recommendations Svend Cameras - small format 28 4th July 2020 02:36 PM
Bulk Loader CambsIan Photography in general 10 20th July 2018 10:41 PM
Bulk Film Loader John King Sale or Wanted 0 24th April 2017 08:38 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.