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  #41  
Old 17th May 2022, 09:33 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Originally Posted by loganca View Post
I think I'll do exactly this for my next roll.

Any suggestions for extending my development time? If the time is approximately linear in the dilution (I believe the Covington site states that) and I'm currently using Dilution E at 1:47 for 6.5 minutes and the negatives look pretty good (at least those without streaks ), then maybe about 9 minutes would work for Dilution H at 1:63. Does that sound like a reasonable starting point?
Yes, from all accounts, incl. Kodak's tech sheet, the relationship between dilution and dev. time is linear with HC110.

So if Dil. H is half that of Dil. B, then use double the time as for B. Similarly, if you're getting good results from Dil. E at 6 min., then yes, your suggested starting time for H of 9 min. sounds spot on (~+50%). Just keep in mind that you may have to tweak this a bit in future by adjusting agitation, exposure index, and/or development time. But that's for another day.... For now you need to put this darned streaking problem to bed.
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  #42  
Old 17th May 2022, 10:53 PM
loganca loganca is offline
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Originally Posted by Svend View Post
Yes, from all accounts, incl. Kodak's tech sheet, the relationship between dilution and dev. time is linear with HC110.

So if Dil. H is half that of Dil. B, then use double the time as for B. Similarly, if you're getting good results from Dil. E at 6 min., then yes, your suggested starting time for H of 9 min. sounds spot on (~+50%). Just keep in mind that you may have to tweak this a bit in future by adjusting agitation, exposure index, and/or development time. But that's for another day.... For now you need to put this darned streaking problem to bed.
Thanks, will give this a try and report back.
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  #43  
Old 18th May 2022, 08:53 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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The thing to remember with HC 110 dilutions is to always allow 6ml of concentrate per film. If you exceed this problems usually happen. I have kept to this rule for over 30 years now with many film / dilution combinations and have never had any issues.

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  #44  
Old 18th May 2022, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by B&W Neil View Post
The thing to remember with HC 110 dilutions is to always allow 6ml of concentrate per film. If you exceed this problems usually happen. I have kept to this rule for over 30 years now with many film / dilution combinations and have never had any issues.

Neil.
That's quite remarkable, Neil.

So, if I understand correctly, by using 1 film with double the volume of developer, this will lead to problems?

So 6ml dev in 500ml of water is not the same as 12ml dev in 1000ml of water?

So it's the total amount of developer that's the issue and NOT the developer to volume ratio?
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  #45  
Old 18th May 2022, 11:50 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Vania's post in Photo.net, showing stripes across three frames of 120, is the most obvious evidence so far. Consider the configuration in the reel, in the tank - a cylinder with a vertical axis. It has to be layering!

I have no experience of HC110 but 30 years ago I designed a proportioning mixer for bulk chemistry in photofinisher labs. It had a graduated measuring cylinder, actually a funnel, and one component of one brand of C41 developer was really viscous, like golden syrup.

The manufacturer pointed out that the viscous concentrate minimised the weight of water to be transported around the world and allowed for a smaller container - 22L instead of 60L.

The gloop coated the inside of the measuring funnel and we had to introduce a rinse step. We also had to allow a longer mixing time (by comparison, all of the RA4 concentrates mixed thoroughly in no more than 15 seconds). On maintenance stripdown, users reported an unexplained tideline stained into the polyethylene tank, which might have been the CD3 component.

Could poor mixing of HC110 be the culprit?
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  #46  
Old 18th May 2022, 11:59 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Marty, I think what the 6 ml minimum that Neil refers to, actually means is as follows: The minimum required for the OK development of one film be that a 35mm or 120 is 6ml of HC110 according to Neil's standard.

Provided that your chosen dilution ratio results in enough liquid to cover the film then that's fine. So if you only need 240ml to cover a 35mm film then you cannot use your chosen ratio of say 1+47 because that ratio gives you 288ml. In my case my 35mm tank doesn't hold 288ml so I'd need to use a 120 tank

Of course I have the option of either changing to ratio to 1+40 or risking using a concentrate of just over 5ml of concentrate if I want to use my 240ml tank as only just over 5ml give me my "sacred" 1+47 and doesn't flood over the sides of the tank

You are right that the ratio will change if I want to develop a 120. 6ml will still be fine but to cover a 120 film I now need 480ml so my ratio changes to 1+80

What this means is that if you wish to stick rigidly to say 1+47 I'd need to use 10ml of concentrate instead of the minimum of 6ml to keep to that ratio

What difference that extra 4ml of concentrate would make to the development of a film I have no idea

Mike

I hope this makes sense

Mike
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  #47  
Old 18th May 2022, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Marty, I think what the 6 ml minimum that Neil refers to, actually means is as follows: The minimum required for the OK development of one film be that a 35mm or 120 is 6ml of HC110 according to Neil's standard.

Provided that your chosen dilution ratio results in enough liquid to cover the film then that's fine. So if you only need 240ml to cover a 35mm film then you cannot use your chosen ratio of say 1+47 because that ratio gives you 288ml. In my case my 35mm tank doesn't hold 288ml so I'd need to use a 120 tank

Of course I have the option of either changing to ratio to 1+40 or risking using a concentrate of just over 5ml of concentrate if I want to use my 240ml tank as only just over 5ml give me my "sacred" 1+47 and doesn't flood over the sides of the tank

You are right that the ratio will change if I want to develop a 120. 6ml will still be fine but to cover a 120 film I now need 480ml so my ratio changes to 1+80

What this means is that if you wish to stick rigidly to say 1+47 I'd need to use 10ml of concentrate instead of the minimum of 6ml to keep to that ratio

What difference that extra 4ml of concentrate would make to the development of a film I have no idea

Mike

I hope this makes sense

Mike
On re-reading Neil's post, I think it's the interpretation of the word "exceed"!
Exceed meaning higher dilutions with no more than 6ml of concentrate, therefore dilutions D,E,F,G & H
VS
Exceed meaning lower dilutions with more than 6ml of concentrate, therefore dilutions A,B & C.

So nothing to do with developer volume, I don't think...
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  #48  
Old 18th May 2022, 02:27 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Default Checking on layering

A way of checking on the efficiency of mixing is to let the mixture stand for a while in a transparent (not polyethylene) vessel and hold it to light after mixing. I just tried it with honey. The liquid can appear to be mixed but changes in refractive index can still be apparent if you look for them. I know it's unfashionable but I still put sugar in my espresso. I'm certain that I stir it thoroughly but the bottom of the cup always tastes sweeter than the rest.
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  #49  
Old 18th May 2022, 04:03 PM
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One problem you can run into with HC110 dilutions (above 1:31) is have too much developer - especially at the higher dilution ratios. So bear in mind a mimimum 6ml of stock per film to get the best results.

If I remember correctly this is talked about in the Developing Cookbook and also in Kodak's blurb. In any event it has been my method of working for many years now and I haven't had any problems.

I am not saying this was the cause of the streaks but I think there's a possiblilty it could be.

Neil.
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  #50  
Old 18th May 2022, 05:55 PM
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Reginald S Reginald S is offline
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I'm a friend of orthochromatic material.
While observing the development under red light this stuff will give good impressions of what will happen to the film caused by the developer and myself.
Par example: Each short single shock to my tray immediately and dramatically increase the dense.

Once I made an experiment with tray development and sheet film.
After a totally weak development caused by dubious math, I gave fresh developer with the recommended dilution to the liquid into the tray and therefore onto the sinked negative.

This finally gave an amazing Hubble space art design to the negative plus the idea not to bring liquid to my negatives lurking in a static system like trays or tanks.
I either use a processor or I bring the film to the liquid.

And I fear that the described fill-in / fill-out processes could have caused the dense stripes.
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