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  #1  
Old 22nd January 2013, 09:53 PM
SarahP SarahP is offline
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Default Changing bags/ lifespan of chemicals

Hello

I'm a complete newbie in the process of setting up my first dark room and have just bought a 'set' copntaining various bits of eqipment and kit from ebay, and whilst I have many questions relating to its contents, I'm guessing the best way is to ask a single question ( or in this case two....) as and when I'm in a position to put the eqipment to practical application.

Does the room need to be the same complete (apart from safelight) darkness for printing as it does for spooling the fim into the developing tank spiral ?

Is a changing bag 'better' in any way ?

and ( sorry this is three questions )

The print kit came with some small bottles of upopened undated ( the paper was dated expiry 2002 so I'm guessing a similar age ) jessops own brand econostop, econofix and econoprint chemicals -

would they still be usable or would I be better getting new chemicals as, as a complete newbie I would have no idea what was user error and what was due to chemical process in judging results.

If the fixer and stop bath were usable, would it be ok to mix these with a new different brand of chemical for the film developing ?

and whilst I'm here...would the unopened paper still be worth using ?

many thanks in anticpation for any help

Sarah
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  #2  
Old 22nd January 2013, 10:08 PM
EdBray EdBray is offline
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Okay, I'll have a go at your questions.

The room in which you spool the film onto the processing spiral must be absolutely light tight. Just imagine how much light is let in to the camera to make the exposure 1/second at a given aperture (not much). To facilitate this some people who find it difficult to make their darkrooms completely light tight use a changing bag/tent. The tents are better than the bags but are correspondingly more expensive but don't collapse on you whilst you are trying to spool your film onto the spiral.

The stop bath and fixer may well be okay, personally I would bin the developer and buy fresh, you don't need to be guessing at processing problems that may be caused by OOD developer.

You can use pretty much any stop bath and fixer with any developer with a few exceptions. If you are using a staining developer then you do not want to be using an acid stop bath or fixer as it reduces the staining. For normal film developers standard stop bath and fixers will be fine.

Depending on the age of your paper and how it was stored it may be okay, but probably doubtful if over a couple of years old, although you can use it for contact sheets and learning how to burn and dodge images without using fresh paper that you would use for final prints.

Last edited by EdBray; 22nd January 2013 at 10:11 PM.
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  #3  
Old 22nd January 2013, 10:14 PM
DaveP DaveP is offline
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If you fancy a cheapish changing tent then Calumet do one for about 50 quid which is very good for the money and fast to setup (it almost pops up).
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  #4  
Old 22nd January 2013, 11:28 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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From what you have mentioned Sarah the econoprint chemical is for paper developing only and not film. You could give it a try on part of a print sheet from an exposed neg projected from the enlarger. If it is defunct then you have only lost part of a sheet and can keep the rest of the sheet for other test strips

If you have very ancient 2002 film developer then I wouldn't bother with it unless it was Rodinal which keeps for years. I'd buy fresh liquid dev such as Ilfosol. You could try powder developer such as ID11 or Xtol but it might be easier with liquids to start with.

As far as loading film onto a reel do you have a very dark place such as an indoor cupboard under the stairs or room which only opens onto another room such as a hallway without windows or windows that are far away from the room's door and not in a direct line?

What I am getting at is that with outside darkness you can use such a room to load film especially if you turn your back to the door. Sit or stand in it for say 5-10 mins and if you can still see nothing then it is light-tight enough.

Winter brings "brass monkeys" temps and rotten weather but has the advantage of real darkness for up to at least 14-15 hours which is the processor's friend

Mike
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  #5  
Old 23rd January 2013, 01:33 AM
paulc paulc is offline
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If you are on a tight budget, then whilst the Camulet popup tent is great, you don't need one - A changing bag is all I used for a long while to load film. The trick is to find a cardboard box that fits inside the bag, cut one side out, and you have a (fairly) rigid space to work in.

Stop bath can be as simple as a teaspoon or two of citric acid (from Boots or the cookery isle) per litre of water, developer is best used fresh. Fixer, whilst it lasts quite a while, ten years is probably pushing it a bit.
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  #6  
Old 23rd January 2013, 07:33 AM
RichardWarom RichardWarom is offline
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Hi Sarah
Welcome to FADU. I have some what is clutter to me but could be very useful to someone starting out and do me a favour as it needs to go. I live in Leicestershire. If your interested let me know and perhaps we could arrange something to get it to you. It would be FOC.
Regards
Richard
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  #7  
Old 23rd January 2013, 07:34 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Sarah, for loadiing film into tank then you need total darkness, but you can use a changing bag, and they are available quite cheaply, for printing you don't need to be quite so light tight, you can have the odd small light leak,but keep the paper exposure to the minumin, just takikng the sheet out when you are ready to make the exposure, and you should be fine, certainly some of the darkrooms I have had over the years, converted bathrooms Etc that were set up and taken down as needed, and I had no problems, As far as the chemicals go, I personally would not trust them, I would bin them and buy new, chemicals are cheap compared to the loss of either prints or negatives caused by rubbish chemicals, the paper also, might be OK, depends if it has been stored properly, try it, Also, good luck with the new darkroom and welcome to Fadu
Richard
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  #8  
Old 23rd January 2013, 09:28 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default The Darkroom

Whilst the darkroom ideally needs to be light tight, I have to use my garage at present until I get a new darkroom set up. Consequently there is a small amount of light leakage from around the up and over door. However that is at the opposite end of the room and in consequence has no discernible effect. That includes colour printing as well as B&W.

For loading films onto the spools I always use a changing bag anyway so the light leakage problem does not exist.
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  #9  
Old 23rd January 2013, 10:23 AM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is offline
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It is surprising how long some papers keep without obvious signs of deteriation. As suggested above test a piece. You can just develop and fix a strip without exposing it in the enlarger and see if you get a clean white. If the old paper is a bit suspect it is useful for proof prints to sort out composition and relative exposures for burning and dodging etc, then do a final print on fresh paper. I have some Ilford MG IV which must be well over 10years old and still gives clean bright whites.

Tony

Last edited by Tony Marlow; 23rd January 2013 at 10:28 AM.
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  #10  
Old 23rd January 2013, 01:07 PM
Adrian Adrian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
Whilst the darkroom ideally needs to be light tight, I have to use my garage at present until I get a new darkroom set up. Consequently there is a small amount of light leakage from around the up and over door. However that is at the opposite end of the room and in consequence has no discernible effect. That includes colour printing as well as B&W.

For loading films onto the spools I always use a changing bag anyway so the light leakage problem does not exist.
I'm in the same situation John - darkroom in the garage. I blocked up the gap around the up-and-over door with a sheet of rubber pond liner. Same at the bottom. It's light-tight but the equally big benefit is it has considerably cut down the draft.

I don't want to divert this thread, but in this cold weather does anyone have any simple/low-tech suggestions for keeping the printing baths within a reasonable temperature range when working in somewhere cold like a garage? I use gravel trays as water baths - starting out at around 30C, they then cool to about 24C and I start to print. When the temperature gets down to about 18C (about 1/2 hour window) I stop and replenish the water baths. I stick thick pieces of cardboard over the top when not actually processing prints to try to stop the heat escaping too much. It's a real pain! I used to work in a bathroom that was perfectly stable at around 20C but the large enlarger I now use won't fit.
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