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  #11  
Old 16th January 2010, 11:23 AM
mshakeshaft mshakeshaft is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Well what a shame, it started so well, I read as far as:

"opportunity to see samples of work from the group members. You are invited to bring along 2 or 3 of your own edited digital photographs as jpeg files on a memory stick to be shown on a data projector."

then nodded off.


Hi Dave

Let me introduce myself I am Martin Shakeshaft, who with Paul Hill and Nick Lockett has re launched the Photographers Place.

In light of your comments about showing images electronically, I have changed the blog to read 'You are invited to bring along 2 or 3 of your own edited digital photographs as jpeg files on a memory stick to be shown on a data projector (or prints if you prefer).'

The reason for stipulating digital files was so that images could be projected and easily seen by everyone. The emphasis on digital capture is simply because it makes feedback almost instantaneous. However if people would prefer to shoot on film, please feel free to do so. Paul, Nick and I are all experienced in both digital and silver based image capture and print production.

Hope that clarifies things. If people would prefer to concentrate just on traditional skills in future workshops, we would be happy to set things up. One area we have discussed for a workshop later in the year is tradition processes; keep an eye on the website for future announcements.

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Martin
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  #12  
Old 16th January 2010, 02:14 PM
Tom Kershaw Tom Kershaw is offline
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Roy,

Is film photography really a 'special interest' compared to digital? At least it is still what I think of as the default option. Perhaps using a DSLR is an alternative process...

Tom
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  #13  
Old 16th January 2010, 03:17 PM
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RH Designs RH Designs is offline
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I spent an excellent weekend there many years ago, long before pixels arrived on the scene. As Roy says, it was all about photography and not equipment, and if you're looking at picture content rather than technique, in my view it doesn't matter what technology is used. It's good to know the Place is back.
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  #14  
Old 16th January 2010, 05:03 PM
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Les McLean Les McLean is offline
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Roy is absolutely right, The Photographers Place is all about the image and, in my opinion, digital is an excellent workshop tool to maximise available time and get to the reason for taking the workshop, namely to improve your vision and get motivated to develop a different approach and new ideas.

The Photographers Place was the venue of my first ever workshop with Paul Hill and the late and sadly missed Ray Moore and at the end of the workshop I left with my head buzzing and full of different ideas. I can definately say that the workshop was by far the most significant part of my own development as a photographer. I subsequently took a few more workshops at The Place and each time I felt that I left a better photographer than when I arrived for the workshop.

My advice to all is to make an effort to take a workshop there but go with an open mind and a be prepared to have your work viewed and critiqued in a sensible, careing way but with no punches pulled.
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  #15  
Old 16th January 2010, 05:20 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshakeshaft View Post
Hi Dave

Let me introduce myself I am Martin Shakeshaft, who with Paul Hill and Nick Lockett has re launched the Photographers Place.

In light of your comments about showing images electronically, I have changed the blog to read 'You are invited to bring along 2 or 3 of your own edited digital photographs as jpeg files on a memory stick to be shown on a data projector (or prints if you prefer).'

The reason for stipulating digital files was so that images could be projected and easily seen by everyone. The emphasis on digital capture is simply because it makes feedback almost instantaneous. However if people would prefer to shoot on film, please feel free to do so. Paul, Nick and I are all experienced in both digital and silver based image capture and print production.

Hope that clarifies things. If people would prefer to concentrate just on traditional skills in future workshops, we would be happy to set things up. One area we have discussed for a workshop later in the year is tradition processes; keep an eye on the website for future announcements.

Regards

Martin
Thanks for the clarification Martin, I'm sure that there are some here who will be interested, and I personally wish you all the best with this venture; for myself my days of having to view digitally projected images are over.
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  #16  
Old 16th January 2010, 07:40 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I think the essential problem for the film photographer on the landscape course is not the ideas/ techniques aspect or even bringing along some prints, although unless the audience is small it become difficult to critique without say several identical prints. NO, the real problem is that the digis have the opportunity to learn from a "before and after" situation because it is instant whereas the analoguer has to go away, develop the film taken that weekend then process the prints and find himself minus the benefit of any "after" critique.

He can further obtain no benefit during the critique if the conversation turns to post processing as I suspect it might.

However to be fair to the organisers there would seem no way round this and they have to cater for the paying customers who will be 100% digis.

Mike
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  #17  
Old 16th January 2010, 07:45 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
I think the essential problem for the film photographer on the landscape course is not the ideas/ techniques aspect or even bringing along some prints, although unless the audience is small it become difficult to critique without say several identical prints. NO, the real problem is that the digis have the opportunity to learn from a "before and after" situation because it is instant whereas the analoguer has to go away, develop the film taken that weekend then process the prints and find himself minus the benefit of any "after" critique.

He can further obtain no benefit during the critique if the conversation turns to post processing as I suspect it might.

However to be fair to the organisers there would seem no way round this and they have to cater for the paying customers who will be 100% digis.

Mike
There most certainly is a way around it. I have been on a photo-holiday where slide films taken by participants during the day where projected for discussion the same evening.
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  #18  
Old 16th January 2010, 08:10 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
There most certainly is a way around it. I have been on a photo-holiday where slide films taken by participants during the day where projected for discussion the same evening.

Yes this used to be way on AP when 3 film photogs would be invited to London for a half days shooting with slides developed over lunch and critiqued that afternoon. No prizes for guessing its fate as more and more APers were judged to have abandonned film.

I suspect that even if a dual medium for feedback were possible, the E6 user would be like the great-uncle that you have to tolerate at Xmas but who is seen as out of touch and more trouble than he is worth. The reality is that if you were in a minority of one or even two on the course then to be fair you would in fact be more trouble than you were worth in terms of catering for you.

Mike
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  #19  
Old 16th January 2010, 10:08 PM
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Roy_H Roy_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
... for myself my days of having to view digitally projected images are over.
I have to say I am tempted to comment "so you won't be visiting websites any more then?" - but that would be a cheap shot.

Truth of the matter is - and in answer to Tom - yes, I do think that the practice of film-based photography is now a 'specialist' interest. The use of film is really not a 'default option' for the vast majority of practitioners, be they amateur or professional. Wet or dry plates were the default option until film came along; with the increased portability and flexibility that it brought with it photography changed; it's changing again now.
I still use film, and I also use digital. My love of photography is not tied to process; it's the images that count.

All the workshops I have ever been involved in were film-based; processing, be it B&W or E6, was never an issue, it was just factored in to the whole planning and organisation of the event. Whilst the darkroom facilities at the original Photographer's Place were primitive, but eminently usable, those at Duckspool were better. I had several precious films ruined by the 'technician' in charge of processing at Paul Hill's place once. The facilities at the Cambridge Darkroom were based on the lessons learned at the Photographer's Place. In their final incarnation they were modern and well-equipped, able to hold a workshop class of ten individuals, plus tutors.

I can honestly see the advantages of digital 'capture' in a workshop situation where it is the approach and the image that is being considered and evaluated. Having recently experienced the time-intensive but measured pace of a lith-printing workshop at Thames Valley University - where the darkrooms are superb - it is obvious that any course which intends to support wet processing must find a similarly good facility. These are not easy to find nowadays.

Long-time film-based practitioners – they (we) hold the key to the future continuation of interest in silver-based photography, and (they) we are all getting older. Darkrooms have disappeared, only those in the attics, sheds and bathrooms of the die-hards continue. How will a younger generation gain experience once all the teachers have gone?

This is why workshops like the revived Photographer's Place are important - and important for us all to support, not 'dis' because they happen to mention 'jpgs' (horror!).
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  #20  
Old 16th January 2010, 10:35 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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“I have to say I am tempted to comment "so you won't be visiting websites any more then?" - but that would be a cheap shot.” Exactly, Roy, it is, and equally incorrect!

I have suffered the degraded results of digitally projected images too many times to want to further the experience, thank you.
Because something is quick, or easy doesn’t make it right. If the aim is to teach digital imaging, then digital projection may be acceptable, as in this reincarnation, but it most certainly is not for me. That is why I said, in my earlier post, that I thought it a shame when I found out that it was to be a digitally based course.
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