Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Equipment > Darkroom

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4th September 2020, 07:40 PM
SteveW SteveW is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 94
Default Washing Pyro films

I have been using Pyro PMK on and off for a number of years. This evening I developed a role of HP5 and followed Ed Buffalo method on unblinking eye (it isn't much different from my own). Negs are hanging up to dry and look to have come out looking nice. Something I have always wondered about was in the washing. I have used the Ilford method of washing for a long time on all films but with PMK there is always the mention of washing in constant flow of water giving the increase in the stain. Has anyone any experiance of this, does it actually make a big difference?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4th September 2020, 07:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,962
Default

I have no experience of staining developers but I wonder what it is that a constant flow of waters does than the Ilford method doesn't do in terms of increasing the stain.

What is the source of the statement, Steve?


Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4th September 2020, 09:32 PM
SteveW SteveW is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 94
Default

I have seen it a few time mentioned, as usual I can't think of any immediately but this is one I did find:-
http://www.cabbagetownphoto.com/pyro.html. Point 6.
I no longer have the book but if I am sure Gordon Hutchings mentioned it in his book of Pyro.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4th September 2020, 11:04 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,962
Default

There are those here Steve who can comment on PMK Pyro and the processing suggested in your link much better than I but there was a number of steps in the processing that hinted to me that cabbagetown may not be basing everything on science. It wasn't for instance clear why the omission of pre-wash meant that films stuck to each other. In the processing suggested are the films touching and if so how?

He mentions 30-45 mins washing which is long compared to anything else I have ever seen but he doesn't mention a continuous flow of water. It was the idea that flowing water has a special effect as opposed to the fill invert and dump Ilford washing process that intrigued me but maybe it is length of washing that is key

However the question remains why does this lengthy time increase staining and he does not explain this

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th September 2020, 07:54 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Midlands/Aegean
Posts: 1,988
Default

I'm not sure how it's possible that stain intensifies during washing. staining is a by product of the developing process where the oxidised developing agent forms a dye.

There was a lot of rubbish written when PMK was formulated, one was that to improve the staining you should re-immerse the film in the spent developer after fixing. Yes that does increase staining but not particularly evenly and it's just increasing base staining and not in prportion to the negative's tonal range. Gordon Hutchings later dropped that recommendation and no longer recommends it.

While I don't use PMK I do use Pyrocat HD another staining developer and have done for around 15 or 16 years. I also use Ilfor IT-8 toner on occasions, the Bleach is Potassium Dicromate and HCl based so similar to a Chrome intensifier and the re-developer a simple Pyrocatechin developer. I now use Pyrocat HD as the redeveloper as it works as well and keeps well, one problem with the simple toner developer is it oxidises very quickly and stains the paper base.

The Pyrocatechin stain is very stable and acid fixers washing etc doesn't affect it. It's possible the Pyrogallol stain is less stable washing certainly cannot increase it but it may remove some of the base stain and in doing so increase contrast slightly.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th September 2020, 11:47 AM
SteveW SteveW is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 94
Default

Thanks for the input guys. It is just something I have been curious about for a little while. Not being a chemist I wondered if there was 'something in the water'.
I still have some PMK to get through but am keen to try the Pyrocat HD.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th September 2020, 07:49 PM
skellum's Avatar
skellum skellum is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Isle of Lewis
Posts: 1,330
Default

I haven't washed film in running water for years. PMK is now my only developer, and I wash by the Ilford method. The only variation in staining I notice depends on the film.
HP5 stains strongly, as does Fomapan 100.
PanF much less so, and SFX not at all.
Like Ian, I can't qute see how washing in water causes more stain to develop after the staining agent is gone.
Always willing to hear scientific reason though if anyone has one.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Washing Prints High Sierra Darkroom 12 3rd July 2020 04:48 PM
5x4 Neg Washing Martin Aislabie Darkroom 4 11th November 2014 04:07 PM
Washing joenail Monochrome printing techniques 24 8th May 2014 01:34 PM
Pyro film, pyro paper developer then? jfmatias Monochrome Film 7 26th July 2011 03:57 PM
Washing 5x7 sheets films Jacques Cameras - Large Format 4 16th January 2010 08:58 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.