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Old 30th November 2019, 07:36 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Default Ilford Ortho Plus - Developing under Red Light

I came across this quite by chance on youtube but I'd welcome comments on what you see. Specifically comments on the colour and intensity of the Kodak Beehive light he uses. I ask this because it looks more like the amber light similar to the Ilford 902 which as I understand matters is not suitable for development by inspection of Ortho film and the light it gives out at least on the video appears to be more than enough to develop by inspection.

If it is a red light and it may well be then users of Ilford Ortho Plus have a very good means of deciding on development times in non Ilford developers which Ilford have stated it will not produce times for.

I hope that our latest member sees this thread as he may now have a way of working out his personal time for Rollei Ortho 25 as I'd assume that as a genuine Ortho film it is equally safe under red safe light as Ilford Ortho Plus 80


youtube.com/watch?v=hqbyhrDbT9c

I have copied and pasted the link above If you highlight it and drag it to a new tab it should be watchable

Thanks

Mike
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Old 30th November 2019, 09:29 PM
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DaveInElland DaveInElland is offline
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This guy does something similar and tests his safelights concluding that his “orangey” ones fogged but his red safelight was sound

https://youtu.be/hqbyhrDbT9c
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Old 30th November 2019, 09:58 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks, Dave. Yes that's the same video that I refer to in my post. I was just a little surprised at how non red his beehive safelight looked but if he says it was red then I have no reason to disbelieve him. My bigger concern was how bright it was. The Beehives are supposed to have 15W max bulbs in them and the light in the room looked way brighter than I'd have thought 15W under a red safelight glass would produce.

I suppose that I am hoping that we have someone here who has tried inspection development with Ortho film and can say how bright the light can be and that that level of brightness can allow for proper inspection

Not directly germane to the question of Ortho Plus but I just get a little concerned about someone's attention to detail when he uses what appears to be two plastic buckets over two normal lights. Apparently these are OK for printing which is great but it just surprised me how bright his darkroom was with the two bucket lights and one Beehive for normal printing

Mike
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Old 30th November 2019, 10:19 PM
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Looking directly at the filter when it is lit will likely swamp the sensor in the camera so I don't think you can get a good indication of the colour that way. The lighting looks pretty red once the room lights are out and the camera will make things look a lot brighter than they really are to the eye.

For example - the below was taken on my phone just now using its default settings - no manipulation. In practice, with the human eye, not only can you not read the text on the negative holder, you can't even see that there is any text on it - the holder is just a black blob (Edit: now I think of it, I did not give my eyes time to adjust to the safelight so it would have looked a bit clearer after a few minutes but even then, experience says nothing like as bright as here).
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Old 1st December 2019, 12:26 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Looking directly at the filter when it is lit will likely swamp the sensor in the camera so I don't think you can get a good indication of the colour that way. The lighting looks pretty red once the room lights are out and the camera will make things look a lot brighter than they really are to the eye.

For example - the below was taken on my phone just now using its default settings - no manipulation. In practice, with the human eye, not only can you not read the text on the negative holder, you can't even see that there is any text on it - the holder is just a black blob (Edit: now I think of it, I did not give my eyes time to adjust to the safelight so it would have looked a bit clearer after a few minutes but even then, experience says nothing like as bright as here).
Thanks Bob All of what you said makes me more and more dubious about how well you can do inspection development under a safe red safelight

Clearly unless you can, then the perceived benefit of such inspection development "goes out of the window".

What you are then left with is relying on Ilford times but only by using Ilford developers and secondly, possibly retaining the advantage of loading a reel in less than total darkness which may or may not be of advantage to a beginner but given the need to load in darkness for all the pan films and the practice that can be done in daylight to make this possible it leaves me wondering whether all that is left for Ortho film is the novelty of pictures where red comes out as black and at an ISO that is OK in the U.K. for the late spring and summer months on most days but gives difficulties at other times.

I think I have largely talked myself out of bothering with Ortho Plus for the next 5 months at least but having said that I would still be interested in anyone's experience of giving inspection development a try.


Mike
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Old 1st December 2019, 09:09 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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The guy says it's a new film, strangely it's been around over 50 years although it was tweaked to become Ortho Plus. All that's new are the 35mm & 120 formats it's alwyas been available as a sheet film and in olng rolls (of sheet film) on the ULF yearly order. I used to use something like a box or two a week for work at one time.

Because of it's high speed it's easy to pick up some fogging with a safe light, Ilford recommend only short exposure to safe lights. We always used it in darkness as really you need different safe light filters for it compared to B&W papers.

Ian
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Old 1st December 2019, 11:01 AM
big paul big paul is offline
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when I worked in a darkroom when I left school ,my first job , we used to copy loads of photographs , documents we used sheet film and glass plates I think we called it copy film ,it was Ilford and kodak film ,I think . I have some kodalith ortho plates type 3 . also it says to use kodak safelight filter, wratten series 1A
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Old 1st December 2019, 11:37 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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On the 5x4 box it says "Ilford Ortho Plus Black and White Copy Film" and is essentially just the last upgrade of the Ilford Copy film you used Paul.

Safelight recommendations:

Either total darkness or use an ILFORD 906 (dark red) safelight illuminated by a 15 watt bulb. As a precaution against fogging and resultant reduced image contrast, a minimum distance of 1·2 m/4ft between the safelight and the working area is recommended. For best results, keep safelight exposure to a minimum.

An Ilford 906 safelight is Dark Ruby Red, the same as a Wratten 2, very significantly darker red and a lower light output than an Ilford 900 Bright Red, or Wratten 1/1a recommended for Lith/Line films.

The problem is few will have a 906/Wratten 2 or equivalent safelight or filter, it's also the recommended filter for Harman Direct Positive paper.

Ian
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Old 1st December 2019, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Thanks, Dave. Yes that's the same video that I refer to in my post. I was just a little surprised at how non red his beehive safelight looked but if he says it was red then I have no reason to disbelieve him. My bigger concern was how bright it was. The Beehives are supposed to have 15W max bulbs in them and the light in the room looked way brighter than I'd have thought 15W under a red safelight glass would produce.

I suppose that I am hoping that we have someone here who has tried inspection development with Ortho film and can say how bright the light can be and that that level of brightness can allow for proper inspection

Not directly germane to the question of Ortho Plus but I just get a little concerned about someone's attention to detail when he uses what appears to be two plastic buckets over two normal lights. Apparently these are OK for printing which is great but it just surprised me how bright his darkroom was with the two bucket lights and one Beehive for normal printing

Mike
I think he did a video about his bucket safelights - they are indeed buckets if I recall correctly .... be back when I’ve checked ...

Yup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Go8d2cZ4g

He says “ Please note I made these DIY lights out of stuff I had lying around purely to get more light into my darkroom for the videos I make. ”
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Last edited by DaveInElland; 1st December 2019 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 1st December 2019, 04:45 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks all. It still isn't clear to me if his Beehive light is the equivalent of the Ilford 906 or not. I appreciate him saying it was OK under the one safelight that was a Beehive but it seemed that the time the tested safe blank piece of film and the actual frame of film was developed under the safelight was very short.

OK if you are developing in a tank then for most of the time the film is in darkness and only close to what you estimate to be the "right " time would you examine the film perhaps one of twice only but I am back to the key point that even if the film is safe under a 902 for a few seconds at 4ft is the light good enough to judge what is the right development?

Until someone here tries it and relates his experience I guess we will never know

As a bit of an aside, I always find it amazing that when videos are made why the maker doesn't look at it and ask himself if he were the viewer what questions might arise in the viewer's mind such as my questions or better still he get in a couple of others to view it first and ask them what questions it prompted for them that left them unsure of what the answers might be. Then he addresses those questions

Mike
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