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  #1  
Old 25th April 2022, 01:09 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default End of an Era

I have just been told by AG Photographic that Kodak Ektacolour RA4 developer is no more. Kodak a few years ago sold the colour chemicals side out to a Chinese company and they have now gone out of business. I have enough developer left to make another 3 litres then that is it!

They also tell me that Kodak Endura RA4 paper is not available either. FUJI are hanging on with their boxed paper and the supply is reasonable (Made in Belgium) but it is no where as good as Kodak was. How long that availability will last is anybodies guess.

I never was able to get on with Tetenal RA4 developer and after praising the ADOX new colour dev and comparing it to a similar print using Kodak dev there is just not the quality there either. So it looks like for darkroom printing it is B&W or nothing once my RA4 developer is finished.

The supply of 35mm film colour Neg film is also looking bleak (and as we know has done so for a couple of years) with none of the lower priced 'popular' films readily available, I refuse to pay close on a tenner for some of the others which I am not that keen on anyway.

Last edited by John King; 25th April 2022 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 25th April 2022, 02:20 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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Sorry John.
I've never been a colour printer (and looks now like I never will be) but I understand how disappointing it is when a beloved process or film disappears.
I find it astounding that there seems to be strong demand for colour film, but nobody wants to service that market. My understanding is that the motion picture business propped up colour film manufacture for a while, but all reports are that still photography film use is growing again. I hope you find some means to carry on, as black and white is a very different kind of photography.
Good luck.
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Old 25th April 2022, 02:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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It is depressing and no doubt there will be a "new dawn" interpretations about this on Photrio - there always is . However on the basis of what you announce, John, things look bleak

I assume that Fuji is still and will continue to supply chems for the minilabs' RA4 printing but I fear that home darkroom RA4 may be too small a market for any of the big players to want to supply

Last time I looked my local minilab would process C41 and produce a set of 6x4 or 5x7 prints at a price that meant that home produced RA4 was only a little cheaper.

The film newcomers I fear tend to be of the young free and single variety with a reasonable amount of disposable income to make their new hobby affordable even at the current prices of C41 film but they have in the main no chance of setting up a facility for either C41 or RA4 printing and that the darkroom per se is not enough of an interest to make the time and trouble of obtaining space, equipment etc worth their while

Mike

Last edited by Mike O'Pray; 25th April 2022 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Missed a word
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Old 25th April 2022, 06:08 PM
Nat Polton Nat Polton is offline
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Although you may not be happy with the alternatives still available on the market, the complete end has not yet occurred.

It's not like when my beloved Cibachrome stopped production with no other alternative on the market.

At least we can say we were there when the good times were to be had.

Commiserations John, and all other Kodak enthusiasts, I know what it is like.
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Old 25th April 2022, 09:51 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
Sorry John.
I hope you find some means to carry on, as black and white is a very different kind of photography.
Good luck.
I also do B&W as well, but once in a while I get the urge to turn to colour. and today was one and I thought I would replenish my developer stock which is when I discovered the problem with Kodak chems and materials.

Anyway I did a reasonably long session today after my little rant earlier and to rub salt in the wound after a bit of a slow start because the colour of the negs I was hoping to print were not 'top drawer', I had to make a good few test strips to get things right. In the end I made two of the best 12x16 prints I have made for a long while. Sod's law comes to mind!
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Old 25th April 2022, 09:51 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I see no reason to doubt Ag Photographic's announcement to you, John, but I haven't been able to find other retailers who have made any announcement on their sites re Kodak RA4 chemicals being no longer made, nor can I see any announcement on Photrio.
Nothing on Kodak Alaris as far as I can see but then again I have no idea if it still has distribution or indeed any links with what I assume to be SinoPromise as the Chinese company. What does seem certain is that it has no ownership over SinoPromise nor given that it sold its control over Kodak chemicals, would it have any desire to bail SinoPromise out or so I would think.

As late as 21 March of this year a company called Inside Imaging described SinoPromise's cash problems and in the U.S, where the paper appears to be made, the U.S . part of SinoPromise has been classified as "delinquent" which seems to mean unable to meet its business obligations

So nothing is as yet set in stone based on the March report but it does look extremely serious

Mike
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Old 25th April 2022, 10:08 PM
John King John King is offline
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AG with whom I have used for a good few years and have always been straight and up front. They cannot get RA4 developer from the supplier and when they enquired why that is when they were told that the company in China had gone to the wall. The last 4 kits of Ektacolour that I have bought have all been marked as made in China. They also said for over a year now they have been unable to get any Kodak RA4 starter from anywhere.

I am not a chemist but I have a feeling that Tetenal and Adox developer may not be as good because they have the starter already included in the mixed concentrates, whereas Kodak it had to be added when you actually mixed the 3 concentrates. This may also be why Rolliebase C41 developer has such a long life because the starter has to be added to the concentrates and not already mixed in the factory.

A while back when I was chatting to them (AG) about the shortage of film it was mentioned (jokingly) that both Kodak and Fuji were in competition to see who had the worst marketing between the two companies.
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Old 26th April 2022, 01:26 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Well what is certainly true is that SinoPromise has a very serious cash flow problem and seemed to be demanding up front that the distributors ordering chemicals and paper, pay up front in advance

Whether this signals the end of SinoPromise I don't know but we are likely to hear soon I'd have thought . No company can simply ignore a problem like this for long without either a solution or having to declare bankruptcy

If this were to happen I wonder if b&w Kodak chemicals will cease as well?

Mike
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Old 23rd September 2022, 10:17 AM
BrianMK BrianMK is offline
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I'm glad I found this thread because I recently posted the following question in a dpreview forum. I never received an answer.

===

I have a couple of boxes old Kodak Ektacolor RA4 Developer and Bleach-Fix.

They contain sealed bottles of concentrates to make 4 x 5L working strength Developer and the same quantity of Bleach-Fix.

The date on the boxes is 2010, so they are at least 12 years old.

Would they still be useable after all this time or should I just dump them? It would be a shame to throw them away if they still work.

The Silverprint website indicates a price of around £75 for the same quantity of Ektacolor Developer today. The Bleach-Fix is about the same price. (assuming they are still available).

I could try them in my Nova Printing Tank, but it's probably not worth the effort unless there is a reasonable chance of them still being useable.

I have some old 12"x16" Crystal Archive RA4 paper (some of which has been kept in the fridge), but from past experience, I'm pretty sure the unexposed whites will have deteriorated by now.

===

Does anyone here know if 12 year old Chemicals might still be useable?
Is anyone interested in making me an offer?
(NB One 5L batch was used a while back. 3 x 5L batches still remain).
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:43 AM
MattKing MattKing is offline
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FWIW, there are signs that at least some product is starting to trickle out of Sino Promise again. For example, we have seen in Asian markets new Made in China Hc-110 with the same MSDS as the version produced by Tetenal before its bankruptcy in 2019. They are also having Eastman Kodak produce control strips for their colour film chemicals. And I've at least seen a hint that some of the US retailers are updating websites to indicate that they expect to see Kodak branded product again. Covid hit the areas in China where Sino Promise did/does their manufacturing incredibly hard. It also almost eliminated there ability to ship manufactured product - e.g. they were not able to access available shipping containers for export purposes for an extended period of time.
I don't know anything with certainty about projected availability dates, but the industry contacts I have seem a lot more hopeful than they did one year ago.
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