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  #31  
Old 28th January 2021, 06:13 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
...probably deliver more gas than may be needed until the chemical container has been considerably depleted of liquid

Mike
As mentioned before in this thread, I don't think it matters too much about how much chemical is depleted Mike, as you're not trying to disperse all the air in the space. You just want to create a barrier between the chemical and the air, with in this case, Argon gas. The only time that it would make much difference, is if you are trying to put a layer of the gas into a very wide container, as there would then be a bigger surface area to cover with the Argon, and i.e. a longer burst would be required. With the Nova slot processors, which are quite thin, it could even be that a 2 second burst is too much, but is hard to tell, unless in a laboratory scenario.

Terry S
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  #32  
Old 28th January 2021, 09:21 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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You are quite right Terry. I wasn't thinking straight. As long as the surface is completely covered by the heavier than air gas then that's all that's required. Unless the surface area is very large then a two second burst should be enough. In fact if this is the gas maker's recommendation then 2 seconds may (again speculation on my part ) have an element of conservatism in it to make sure that this is a belt and braces time. Long narrow containers such as Ilford 1L containers may certainly require less than 2 seconds

On the other hand, as you say, why skimp when for the gas lasts as long as it does

Mike
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  #33  
Old 29th January 2021, 01:03 AM
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I only use Protectan (or other butane) on my developer slot if I know it will be a while before I use it again - the Neutol WA I normally use lasts for many weeks without. I just cover the top with clingfilm to keep the smells down (tho I use no-odour stop and low-odour fix and the developer has little odour too). By the time my fixer needs replacing, I usually replace the dev too.

I used to use argon from small welding cylinders but it's a bit of a faff and now I have 3d-printed caps for normal butane lighter refils, I just use butane. Plus, I like the sense of living dangerously with lots of little incendiary devices dotted around the darkroom .
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  #34  
Old 30th January 2021, 08:51 AM
Martin Rick Martin Rick is offline
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your film and paper developers are the most likely to suffer from oxidation. I use Rodinal and Moersch Eco 4812 respectively and if I have to use any other developer it gets the lighter gas treatment from the local Chinese store. I don't enjoy spending unnecessary money.
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  #35  
Old 30th January 2021, 11:13 PM
Jon Janson Jon Janson is offline
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For about thirty years I've been using kids glass marbles. Just pop them into the developer bottle to displace the air space right up to the brim and screw the cap on tight. Cheap and re-usable
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  #36  
Old 31st January 2021, 12:27 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Janson View Post
For about thirty years I've been using kids glass marbles. Just pop them into the developer bottle to displace the air space right up to the brim and screw the cap on tight. Cheap and re-usable
I too used to use marbles to top up my chemical bottles, but for what ever reason, I turned to gases to do the job.

And the one main disadvantage about using marbles, is that if you squeeze them into a Nova processor, they're a sod to get out again! (Not that I've actually tried btw.)

Terry S
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  #37  
Old 31st January 2021, 03:23 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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It strikes me that in the likes of a 1L Ilford container then the amount of marbles needed rises with every depletion of the chemical unlike the amount of gas needed and in the case of smaller containers such as might be the case for developer getting marbles int the neck of some containers might be difficult as would be the extraction.

I'd be nervous of the weight of marbles in the likes of a plastic 1L container

Mike

Mike
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  #38  
Old 2nd February 2021, 12:33 AM
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It you only want to displace a relatively small amount of air such as when making up a new batch of chemicals and want to add something to top the bottle up to the brim, then marbles will work fine per Jon's method.

However, because of all he gaps between them that fill with the chemicals, that means you can only replace 52% of the container content with marbles. Once you have used up 52% you have a bottle full of marbles and still 48% of the chemical swishing about between them. So as Mike suggests, not so good if you need to displace a lot of air in the bottle. It is also surprising how many you need in that case...

Last edited by Bob; 2nd February 2021 at 12:38 AM.
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  #39  
Old 13th August 2022, 11:50 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Waking up an older thread to say thanks to all for the suggestions. After pouring half a litre of dead Ilford Rapid Fixer concentrate down the drain, I decided to try a squirt of butane (lighter gas) in a fresh bottle. I will let you know a year from now if it worked

BTW, Protectan is available from only one supplier here, and they wanted more to ship it than the cost of the product itself. Lighter gas refill from the hardware store cost peanuts in comparison.
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  #40  
Old 14th August 2022, 07:27 AM
John King John King is offline
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Default Protectan Spray

I know what Protectan is supposed to do and I tried it perhaps 20 years ago but it failed, or should I say it didn't work any differently from my usual way of working. I never used it again.

I store all of my chemicals that may go off after the bottle is opened in screw top glass bottles. I buy Ilford Multigrade developer for paper in a 5 litre cannister and decant it into 10 x 500cc bottles. When I open one of them that is itself decanted into 5 x 100cc smaller bottles. 100cc is enough for one nights work. I never keep it overnight in a diluted state because by the morning it is really starting to degrade.

RA4 paper developer seems to have an incredibly long life anyway I am now using FUJI because Kodak is not available any more. Considering it lives in my NOVA processor for up to at least 8 MONTHS and it still is good, so long as it is replenished regularly. Yes colour shifts do sometimes happen, but that is RA4 and C41 processing

My standard B&W developer for film is ID11. I mix 1 litre and use it at 1-3 dilution which means it lasts and lasts, that never seems to go off. The previous 1 litre was over 12 months old when I used the final dilution

C41 colour neg developer. I have found have had in the past indifferent storage life, but my current preferred branded make is by Digibase from Firstcall is around 12 months old since I started using the current kit and it is still as good as the day it was opened. All the three main chemicals are clear and not discoloured and the starter does not discolour anyway. This is the only one that is not in stored in glass bottles.

What is it are you trying to preserve with a longer life? I know some chemicals go off rapidly if you don't use them quickly enough, but I avoid using them (Ilford Ilfosol was one of them. I never got past using 1/3rd of a 250cc bottle before it went horribly brown.) I believe from my own experience stick with what you know works. (and lasts.) I believe in a simple life and try to keep it that way. (and cheaper.)

Last edited by John King; 14th August 2022 at 07:31 AM.
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