Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Equipment > Darkroom

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9th July 2017, 09:16 PM
cesare cesare is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 350
Default slight brown edges to some prints...

So, i've just quickly printed some 8*10s from some negatives I developed earlier today, and a few of the prints have some brown stains on the edges. The stains are only on the edges, and only on some of the prints.

Now when i've had this before, i've convinced myself that it's due to old paper, or some other such thoughts, but what's interesting here is that the problem prints are spread through what I printed this evening, so, for example, the second to last print is fine, but the last print is not, but some earlier on are a bit dodgy.

I'm guessing it's then going to be sloppy darkroom technique, and to be honest, i've been rushing to get some test prints out, rather than thinking things through. Is this likely to be under-fixed, or under-stop bathed? In other words, am I carrying dev into the fix on some prints and getting these marks, or am I under-fixing some prints?

I believe the prints looked fine in the trays, so this has developed during drying, so i'm guessing it's a fix related issue, and i'm probably not fixing enough. Is this the most likely culprit?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 9th July 2017, 10:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

If you fix each print the same way then it seems unlikely that it is a fix problem directly. As only the edges are brown and only some of the prints, might it be chemical contamination on you fingers or tongs which was only there on occasions?

This theory completely breaks down of course if you use tongs at all times and the tongs and/or your fingers are effectively "washed" before the final extraction of the prints to be dried

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10th July 2017, 05:41 AM
cesare cesare is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 350
Default

Mike, I think you might be right. Looking at the prints carefully, I think the ones that brownish on the edges are also warmer across the print as a whole, suggesting that they were under-washed between dev and fix, but it's just more noticeable on the edges (RC paper, maybe it soaks more dev into the bare edges?).

There is also one example of some tong marks, faint, but clearly there, and the same staining as the edges.

So, I think it's just shoddy technique, not enough wash between dev and fix. I don't think i've ever intentionally skipped the wash and dropped a print straight from dev into fix. I guess I could try this and see if I see the same print staining to confirm.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10th July 2017, 09:25 AM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: North Norfolk
Posts: 394
Default

I posted a similar problem not so long ago, which I had put down to underfixing. However the problem was actually resolved by renewing the developer, which had been mixed up and used for too long.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10th July 2017, 09:42 AM
photomi7ch's Avatar
photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 2,516
Default

I think gents it is the lack of stop bath that is at fault.
Stop neutralizes the alkalinity of the developer arresting development preventing staining. Lack of stop contaminates the fix causing it to exhaust quickly increasing the likely hood of staining.
__________________
Mitch

http://photomi7ch.blogspot.com/

If you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10th July 2017, 10:26 AM
marty marty is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 340
Default

Hi, there. Is the paper RC or FB ? It looks to me a washing problem, or some degree of lack thereof. My experience is that if the washing time is on the limit of sufficiency might cause an intermittent problem of staining. Due to the nature of the support FB paper is more prone to exhibit the fault. Using a washing aid helps with FB and resolves definitely the issue with RC. My routine with FB is ten minutes in hypo-clearing and twenty minutes in the washer.

Cheers, M.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10th July 2017, 11:55 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Cesare, it does sound as if you wash between dev and fix rather than using an acid stop-bath. I'd strongly recommend an acid stop. As little as 10 secs in an acid stop will be enough. Lack of a stop bath may not be the direct cause but while a water wash in film developing is fine and it's what I use myself, I regard an acid stop for printing as essential

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10th July 2017, 12:08 PM
cesare cesare is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 350
Default

Ok, so the conclusion is that it's either old dev, or dev carry over to the fix through inadequate washing between dev and fix (as i'm not using a stop bath).

Being the scientific type, i'll do some experiments next time i'm setup, to see if I can intentionally recreate this problem. I'll try paper straight between dev and fix, and via a wash, and see if I can force the issue. The paper edge was covered by the easel, so it's happening to unexposed paper.

I'll look into a stop bath too. I'll report back when i've experimented a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10th July 2017, 03:02 PM
big paul big paul is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: benfleet essex
Posts: 2,284
Default

I did a experiment some time ago where I developed a print then into stop bath then I washed it and let it dry after a week or so it started to turn a bit brown and this worked its way across the print but the image was still there and a brown stain on top ,I did not go black ,so if the stain get worse it was your fixer ,and you can always test your fixer with a bit of undeveloped film...don't forget if it was that easy every body would be doing it :-)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11th July 2017, 09:45 AM
cesare cesare is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 350
Default

Ok, last night, I intentionally tried to force this to happen. The dev and fix were from the same batch as I used the night before, and I basically took a strip of unexposed paper cut into three bits.

One went dev straight to fix
One went dev, quick wash, to fix
One went dev, long wash, to fix

They all came up beautifully white, with no hint of a brown edge, both when wet, and after they dried.

I went on to make some more 8*10s with these chemicals and the results were good, no problems at all, which is what usually happens.

So, in conclusion, I reckon that the problem is most likely to be under-fixing, which I know causes brown tints to form. I'm not sure if I rushed the paper into the final wash, or whether i managed to exhaust it by contaminating it somehow (not enough paper went through to cause this). I'd guess I rushed it through the fix, so that's one more thing to be careful of. I guess you can be pretty lax with RC paper, and you FB guys are more on the ball with this stuff as it's easier to exhaust chemistry.

I tend to re-use chemistry for a bit when i'm trying out prints on 8*10, then mix up fresh for a proper printing session when i'm doing larger prints (since I tend to keep enough dev and fix mixed for my smaller trays but not the larger). The dev and fix have gone back into their bottles from last night, and i'll do more printing with them. I've got 4 rolls of shots from the peak district which i'm getting excited about printing, so i've got contact prints and am trying out some of the shots as 8*10 as I decide what to do bigger. I think i've got two so far, with a possible third.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RED NEGATIVES PLEASE, no brown or orange kamakany Colour film 1 13th May 2015 09:45 PM
Do digital, colour or black and white, prints sell better than darkroom prints. Mark Burley Business Matters 51 20th September 2013 02:47 PM
brown ID11 big paul Photography in general 19 27th March 2013 06:10 PM
Van Dyke Brown precipitate Jack Lusted Alternate printing processes 6 27th June 2010 09:56 AM
Brown stains round prints alfie Darkroom 25 3rd June 2009 09:30 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.