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  #1  
Old 6th February 2014, 03:35 PM
jadejessica jadejessica is offline
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Default Grey prints

Hello,
I recently started up my own home darkroom after studying photography at University, and have so far had a problem with grey prints that I can't seem to resolve. I've been using a Zenith UPA-5M enlarger, with ilford chemicals and paper, and every print I produce has a grey overcast. I've tried using different ratios of developer to water, different development times, exposure times, multiple light leak tests (which all show that there is no excess light in the room), and most recently I bought a set of ilford filters, which I read can increase contrast, but only lengthen the exposure time of my prints, which are still grey. I was wondering if this is a problem that a lot of beginners face, and if there are any more possible solutions for me to try before I deem that the second hand enlarger I bought needs to be exchanged for a pricier model.

This is my first post on this forum, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jade.
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  #2  
Old 6th February 2014, 04:00 PM
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Miha Miha is offline
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Hi Jade and welcome to FADU.

Two questions:

- is your paper fresh?

- what type of darkroom safelight do you use?
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  #3  
Old 6th February 2014, 04:00 PM
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Bob Bob is offline
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Hi Jade and welcome to the forum.

You are going to get a lot of advice, so let me add mine!


You seem to have eliminated the possibility of light leaks (tho' there is still the possibility of the safelight being too bright if you have not checked that too).

It does sound as if your problem may be lack of contrast. People tend to print to get a good black but if the negative is low-contrast that will make the whites go grey.

As the filters do not appear to change the contrast, are you sure you are using a multi-contrast paper? What is the name of the paper you are using? If it is Ilford it should have "Multigrade" in the name.


The simplest way to eliminate the possibility of a problem with the materials and chemicals is to switch off ALL lights and process a strip of fresh paper straight from the box in total darkness. If it comes out pure white you know your paper and chemicals are not the problem.

Then repeat with your normal safelighting and see what you get this time. White paper means the fault lies on the dry side - most likely either the enlarger is leaking too much light or the aforementioned problem with contrast. Grey paper means a light issue - possibly the safelight is too bright or the wrong colour.

Cheers, Bob.

Last edited by Bob; 6th February 2014 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 6th February 2014, 04:01 PM
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Xpres Xpres is offline
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Have you checked that your safelight is safe? It's also possible that all your paper is fogged. Maybe try a sheet from a fresh pack.
What paper are you using and how are you using the filters?
Is the developer at the right temperature?
Just a few thoughts.... I'm sure others will chip in...
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Old 6th February 2014, 04:03 PM
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Martin Erdner Martin Erdner is offline
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Hi Jade, welcome to FADU

A few shots in the dark:

- Have you made the safelight test with exposed sheet of paper? The exposure has to be subtle, only a light gray on the (developed) paper. Well, probably Kodak can explain it better:
http://wwwde.kodak.com/global/en/con...Safelite.shtml
There are various ways to do such tests, with coins or whatever, but the important part: start with an exposed sheet of paper.

- old paper
- developer gone bad (or too much diluted - penny wise, pound foolish)

I tend to blame the safelights (or any other lights in there, like a watch, the blinking smartphone, ...).

PS: Well, I see, I am not alone
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Old 6th February 2014, 04:04 PM
big paul big paul is offline
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Hi Jade welcome to fadu have you tried this ,take a sheet of paper and develop and fix it in the dark with safety light ,if its still white leave it near a window if it stays white ,your paper and chemicals are ok and that leaves operator error or the enlarger is no good .

good luck




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  #7  
Old 6th February 2014, 04:06 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Hi Jade and welcome to FADU. Your description suggests that your prints lack contrast. They have a grey look with no real blacks or whites where they're should blacks and whites i.e. a white textured pullover looks grey and a black textured material looks distinctly grey.

If I have got this right and Ilford filters cannot correct it then this is surprising.

A couple of things to check: Is the developer fresh? Is the printing paper fresh. Old paper can be age-fogged and will have a grey overcast. If you have old paper then do the following. Take two small strips. Do not expose either but put the first through developer and fixer as if it was a print and then put the second one through fix only. If the paper is fresh both will appear the same and be white. If the paper is age-fogged then the dev and fix paper will be grey and the fix only will be white.

I suspect that both are fresh from what you have said but do this test is the paper is second-hand or quite old. Finally were the Ilford filters new or bought second-hand and quite old?

Filters do wear out but should even then show a difference in print contrast.

Try the paper test as described using fresh developer and let us know the result. We can take it from there

I cannot think of anything connected to the enlarger that would give you the problem you describe but there is no point in getting ahead of ourselves just yet.

P.S. I take it that the negs look OK and not seriously underexposed or underdeveloped. Lack of contrast in the neg will present printing problems but even here Ilford filters should make a difference

Mike
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Old 6th February 2014, 04:33 PM
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Reinhold Reinhold is offline
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Welcome Jade,

You've told us about your equipment, but...
You haven't told us anything about your processing.

A common mistake is not matching exposure time to a standard developing time. Try this simple 3-rule technique:

Rule #1: Develop for a standard time, say: 2 minutes no matter how dark or light the print looks.
Rule #2: Adjust the exposure time for a desired overall print density.
Rule #3: Adjust contrast only after the exposure time is determined.

If you still can't get a decent print, then chase the other things (developer age & dilution, lens, safelight, background music, etc, etc, etc...)

Rule #4: Don't get frustrated.

Have fun.
Reinhold (& Judy)

www.re-inventedPhotoEquip.com
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  #9  
Old 6th February 2014, 05:26 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Hi Jade.

Great advice from everyone so far.

Another question for you. Presuming you are using an enlarging easel to make your prints, ie giving you margins? If so, do these remain white on the finished print?

Reading what you've said, I have odds on your safe light is either too bright or too close to the paper = one metre minimum is generally the rule.

As an aside, you say that you studied photography at University. I presume you have now finished? I ask as I am in my second year of a photography degree in Southend on Sea in Essex and just wanted to swap views with you.

I look forward to your reply to everyone and hope you get it sorted really quickly, so you don't get put off carrying on.

Terry
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  #10  
Old 6th February 2014, 05:30 PM
jadejessica jadejessica is offline
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Thank you for everybody's responses!

I just tried the test suggested by Mike and Big Paul, whereby I put one strip of paper through fix and one through dev, stop and fix, and the one that went through all three turned partially grey after a few minutes near a SAD lamp. I bought all of the chemicals and paper brand new online, although the paper looked as though it has been re-sealed, it was bought from an online store and not from a person, so I though it would be ok though clearly not.

I'll buy a new pack of paper and then revisit this thread if the problem re-occurs.

Also to answer a few questions that were asked of me:

- the safelight I am using is Paterson
- I have had the same results in compete darkness
- I am using RC Multigrade IV paper
- Filters are second hand but appear in good condition
- Negatives are exposed correctly - had digital prints done to determine this

Thanks again!
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