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  #1  
Old 14th January 2022, 11:23 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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Default Friday Night fun.

We have many threads debating the merits of various developers, the difference between stand/ semi-stand/ rotary processing, prewash or not, is HP5 better than Tri-X, and similar topics. Like others I have some favourite combinations, but then I see other workers using entirely different materials and methods producing prints I really like. It has made me wonder about how much the technical nuances really show in a print.
Entirely for the purposes of discussion and debate I've attached two images.
For those who want to play: for either/both images, feel free to speculate what films might have been used, what format the negative might be, what papers.

Those who participate in the exchanges will know some of my methods, but I will confess to being a format slut (35mm, 35mm Pano, 6x6, 6x7, 5x4) and I'm happy to crop quite radically, so things may not always be as they seem.

All comments are welcome, and if anyone else wants to put up an image for similar scrutiny/discussion it might make for an interesting discussion. What do you make of these?
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Name:	Mystery 2.jpg
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Old 15th January 2022, 10:29 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Skellum, the first one is dead easy. It only needs a quick glance to discern that it was taken with 35mm Ilford 3200, exposed at 1200 or maybe 1600. It looks like it was developed in ID11 stock solution for 10 minutes. On reflection development may have been a bit longer. Possibly 10 minutes 29.5 seconds. It looks like the stop bath was Ilford, at a 1+29 dilution. Then I'd say you fixed it in Fotospeed FX30. It looks a little overfixed, and there is some evidence that you had to answer the phone during fixing, and it got about 5minutes rather than 3 minutes in the fixer. It was printed, without doubt, on Ilford Classic fibre paper, almost certainly on grade 2. Enlarger model is not clear, but it looks to have been done with a Minolta Rokkor enlarging lens.
Am I right?
Alan
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Old 15th January 2022, 11:09 AM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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Come Alan, the first is clearly reminiscent of Rollei 400 which Colin often uses for IR effect. It's almost certainly a crop from 6x6 as I can't imagine that composition in camera!

The second is a 6x6 on Foma film printed on a left over Christmas napkin treated in photo emulsion and toned in Outer Hebridian single or double malt whisky. It's hard to tell from the scan.

They must be lovely prints to behold and sniff!

Am I right or am I right?
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Old 15th January 2022, 12:03 PM
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Har Har!

One of these is Rollei IR400, and one is Delta 3200.
However, perhaps not quite as guessed yet.
Malt surely involved in the production of at least one of these, but not for toning. Rather more for inspiration.
I suspect Terry will have a guess soon, then I'll post what's what.
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Old 15th January 2022, 02:09 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Good day everyone!

The first print I would guess as an IR film - possibly Rollei, as mentioned. The scan seems to have picked up a bit of texture in the paper, so I'm guessing Ilford Art 300 paper for that one...?

The second looks finer grained when zoomed in, so maybe HP5+ (or even FP4+?) followed by a bit of toning. It's a bit hard to guess the paper, with it not being in the hand, but it looks softer contrast, so I'm guess FB... and maybe matt surface??

Terry S
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Old 15th January 2022, 03:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I have a feeling that some of the above conclusions may be slightly wrong, the most obvious being the 10 mins 29.5 seconds. All my knowledge of photography and the various formulae I have used for nearly 100 years made it obvious that it was clearly 29 secs

What is beyond argument so no point in others even suggesting that I may be mistaken( in fact even suggesting I may be wrong is a mistake at all times) is that I love the tone in the second one.

I will "repel all boarders" on the last point even unto the point of death

Mike - always unassuming and open to others' views
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Old 15th January 2022, 04:42 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Skellum, I think you are deliberately trying to confuse us here. With my Sherlock Holmes hat on, i'd say the second one was taken with infra red film, and you tried to throw us off the scent by choosing an image that has no infra-red effects....
You also cropped it square to confuse us....I believe it is a crop from a 35 mm format, and that the left side was the centre of the image, as this looks sharpest.
And the toning was done with the now defunct Agfa Viradon, which you found in the back of a drawer...the second drawer down, am I right?

Alan
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Old 15th January 2022, 11:03 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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No fooling the folk who hang around here.

The first image-
As Marty says, Rollei IR400 but it's in 5x4. This was the only half way useful image I got from a whole box of film. Finnicky to use, but being a glutton for punishment I plan to try again in the spring. The paper is Art300 with no toning. Well done Terry.

The second is Delta 3200, rated at 3200 and processed in DDX. It's 120 roll, from when I was experimenting with hand-holding the C330s. The grain is really fine, and I was astonished how good it looked when I first saw it. Print on Ilford FB multigrade, and Yes! This was toned in Viradon. Nicely spotted Alan. I now use Fotospeed sepia, but miss Viradon and have been reading up on making it.
Alan, there are no drawers in my darkroom or under my kilt.
As they say:
"What's worn under the Kilt?"
"Nothing- it's all in perfect working order."

What prompted this was watching a video about Robin Bell. His prints all look gorgeous, yet he works with negatives made by many photographers using every possible combination of film and dev. Anyhow, any volunteers for another print?
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Old 16th January 2022, 01:28 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
The first image - As Marty says, Rollei IR400 but it's in 5x4. This was the only half way useful image I got from a whole box of film. The paper is Art300 with no toning. Well done Terry.

The second is Delta 3200, rated at 3200 and processed in DDX. It's 120 roll, from when I was experimenting with hand-holding the C330s. The grain is really fine, and I was astonished how good it looked when I first saw it. Print on Ilford FB multigrade.

What prompted this was watching a video about Robin Bell. His prints all look gorgeous, yet he works with negatives made by many photographers using every possible combination of film and dev. Anyhow, any volunteers for another print?
Well, I'll take two points from that then.

Shame you only got one good exposure from a box of 5" x 4" Skellum. I remember when I shot a couple of rolls of 35mm IR, way back when. I gave each shot a range of exposures, to see if I needed to compensate with the exposure. When I developed the first roll though, all the 'correct' exposures were spot on, so I shot as usual with the second film. All were shot on bright sunny days and I got a couple of good shots from the films.

As for your second shot, I have just re-looked at it and I am still very surprised at the apparent lack of grain for an ISO 3200 film.

And yes, I too have watched a couple of videos of Robin Bell, along with buying the DVD that was released. Obviously years and years of printing have given him the skill to print just about any negative to a very good standard. I keep looking through my files, trying to find a difficult negative to print, but also one I like and can't get a good result from. With a sharp intake of breath, I would love to send him this negative to see what he could make of it and then compare it to my effort. One day this will happen.

Terry S
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Old 16th January 2022, 01:42 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Terry, as you seem to have won 1st. prize in this competition, when Skellum sends you your winning cheque, you should be able to afford to pay Robin Bell to print you an entire portfolio....

Alan
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