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  #1  
Old 4th October 2020, 12:56 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Default BIG grain with film developed in paper developer

I have an urge to try something different. I've tried the search box, but found nothing.

So, as I quite like a bit of grain, with the right subject, and have enjoyed using ISO 3200 films in the past, I want to ask this.

Has anyone any advice about or actually developed a film in paper developer? If so, what dilution and times would you suggest as a starting point? Any suggestion of films etc. etc.

Many thanks as I wander off to google, but prefer information from members of this site.

Terry S

P.S. Just checking my first link to Ilford, I'm want to try it even more after reading this line:

'Paper developers are specifically used as part of the printing process and are not to be used on film.' (My bolding btw.)

Last edited by Terry S; 4th October 2020 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 4th October 2020, 04:07 PM
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photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
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I can tell the red flag to a bull has taken over with that last statement. It is something I have considered doing myself but put it to one side to concentrate on getting my prints right, all the best with your venture
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Old 4th October 2020, 07:30 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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In my youth I did a swap one long weekend with a friend my Zenit E and two lenses for a Yashicamat 124G.

I needed film developer so went into my local Pharmacist/Camera store and came out with D163 Kodak's Universal Developer, to be fair the girl serving me was probably no older (15/16) and really hadn't got a clue.

Any way I processed my 120mm FP4 see-saw in a tray my reel was only 35mm, the negatives were good but very grainy far worse than my 35mm HP3.

However remember Dektol/D72 was originally a film/plate developer, just like D163 but by film they meant sheet film and a different aesthetic.

Ian
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Old 5th October 2020, 12:04 PM
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skellum skellum is offline
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I've gone the other way, developing paper (Multigrade FB) in a film developer- PMK Pyro.
Why, you might ask, and I wouldn't have a straight answer. It gives a sepia print by staining, including some staining of the white unexposed borders. Quite liked it, but in an open tray it oxidises too quickly for a session and exhausted in no time.
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Old 5th October 2020, 12:45 PM
John King John King is offline
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If you really want grain, try a paper developer with Rollie Infra Red or Ilford SFX - you could pebbledash walls with the grain.
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Old 5th October 2020, 01:53 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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When I was young, money was tighter than todasy, and the idea of a ''universal'' developer that coud do paer and film seemed likee a great saving, so I tried Johnsons of Hendon universal developer, and it was great for paper, but when I developed a roll of 127 tri x film the grain was so bad, golf ball size and when printed the grain was so big you could almost count it
Richard
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Old 5th October 2020, 02:01 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Rather than purchasing anything new, I'll start off with what I've already got.

I have some exposed lengths of film already, so I think I will try developing a few of them in Ilford Multigrade along with a freshly mixed up version of D72, that I liked as a paper developer.

As I'm jumping in the deep end, it's going to be a total guess at the first development time.

I'll keep notes and report back in due course and I'm actually quite excited to try something totally new to me.

Terry S
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Old 5th October 2020, 04:30 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Paper developers are very aggressive - compared to film developers.

They will build up the density in your films at a heck of a rate - so you might want to try a very dilute cocktail to begin with.

I once used some B&M universal developer and as well as high contrast I also had big problems with air bells (air bubbles trapped on the film/reel)

However, nothing ventured - nothing gained.

Let us know what your findings and results are.

Have fun

Martin
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Old 5th October 2020, 06:32 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
I've gone the other way, developing paper (Multigrade FB) in a film developer- PMK Pyro.
Why, you might ask, and I wouldn't have a straight answer. It gives a sepia print by staining, including some staining of the white unexposed borders. Quite liked it, but in an open tray it oxidises too quickly for a session and exhausted in no time.
Sometimes I use Ilford IT-8 toner, essentially it's a Dichromate bleach similar to a Chrome Intensifier and then a simple Pyrocatechin re-developer. I've found Pyrocat HD works just as well and lasts a bit longer.

Ian
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Old 5th October 2020, 06:50 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
Paper developers are very aggressive - compared to film developers.

They will build up the density in your films at a heck of a rate - so you might want to try a very dilute cocktail to begin with.

I once used some B&M universal developer and as well as high contrast I also had big problems with air bells (air bubbles trapped on the film/reel)

However, nothing ventured - nothing gained.

Let us know what your findings and results are.

Have fun

Martin

B&M ? Do you mean May and Baker Suprol. I used to buy it in 25 litre drums. At 1+19 or 1+29 it was a very fine grain developer used by quite a few commercial labs. It was also used extensively for reversal processing and the 1970's data-sheet was very detailed, of course back then it was early days of UK colour TV and many programs and news items were shot on B&W film.

Suprol gave slightly finer grain than Ilford PQ Universal but both give (gave) grain little different to ID-11/D76. I think Suprol has been reformulated, at one time May & Baker made raw photo chemicals, and Colour developing agents. and Suprol supposedly us Chlorohydroqinone and Phenidone, rather than Hydtroquinone and Phenidone like the PQ Universal of that era.

These days PQ Universal uses Dimezone, and doesn't keep quite as well, this is for cost reasons.

Ian
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