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  #81  
Old 27th May 2022, 04:37 PM
loganca loganca is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
In post 25 of this thread, Jonathan Reynolds referred to back-winding. That hasn't figured in subsequent posts as much as I think it should have. It is essential when using Hewes spirals and something I also do whenever using Jobo equipment. It struck me at the time as well worth considering as a factor in this problem.
I looked back at Jonathan's post and I have to admit I'm not sure what was meant by 'back-winding'. Could you elaborate?

That said, I would think that if the frames were touching then I'd get under-developed areas of the film, not areas of higher density. But perhaps I've misunderstood what was meant by the earlier post.
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  #82  
Old 27th May 2022, 04:58 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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Back-winding is essentially pushing the film into the spiral. When you load a Jobo spiral, your finger-tips pull the film in and, when you load a Hewes, your turning the spiral pulls the film in. In both cases the film can end up too tight on the spiral, with the emulsion side in contact with it, Pushing the free end of the film in reduces that tightness and allows the chemistry freer access to the emulsion.

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Originally Posted by loganca View Post
I looked back at Jonathan's post and I have to admit I'm not sure what was meant by 'back-winding'. Could you elaborate?

That said, I would think that if the frames were touching then I'd get under-developed areas of the film, not areas of higher density. But perhaps I've misunderstood what was meant by the earlier post.
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  #83  
Old 27th May 2022, 05:16 PM
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Bill Bill is offline
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I see you mention using the double sided tape method of extracting the film from the cassette. If you are hand rewinding with the Leica you can easily feel when the end of the film leaves the take up spool so why continue and wind the whole film into the cassette? I use a Leica and can tell when it is free. I am sure you could with your other cameras as well. If it is an auto rewind as on some auto wind cameras there may be a setting to leave the tongue out. I know there is on my Canon. That should cure any light leak through the felt trap.
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  #84  
Old 27th May 2022, 05:58 PM
loganca loganca is offline
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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
I see you mention using the double sided tape method of extracting the film from the cassette. If you are hand rewinding with the Leica you can easily feel when the end of the film leaves the take up spool so why continue and wind the whole film into the cassette? I use a Leica and can tell when it is free. I am sure you could with your other cameras as well. If it is an auto rewind as on some auto wind cameras there may be a setting to leave the tongue out. I know there is on my Canon. That should cure any light leak through the felt trap.
I was actually thinking about giving that a try as I am hand-rewinding the film using the Leica. Thanks for the suggestion.
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  #85  
Old 27th May 2022, 06:04 PM
loganca loganca is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Back-winding is essentially pushing the film into the spiral. When you load a Jobo spiral, your finger-tips pull the film in and, when you load a Hewes, your turning the spiral pulls the film in. In both cases the film can end up too tight on the spiral, with the emulsion side in contact with it, Pushing the free end of the film in reduces that tightness and allows the chemistry freer access to the emulsion.
Unless I'm misinterpreting you, I am pushing the free end of the film onto the Jobo spiral. That's the way Jobo says it should be done and the way I've always seen it demonstrated.

Here's a video from Jobo that shows how they suggest loading film onto a 1501 reel. A film loading demonstration is shown at the 1 minute mark. They're using 120 film but 35mm is done the same way. I'm doing it exactly this way as well.

https://youtu.be/Zsx84OsIW-M
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  #86  
Old 27th May 2022, 06:16 PM
Michael Michael is offline
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That's exactly how I do it too and, as I said, your finger-tips are pulling the film into the reel, in alternate steps.

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Originally Posted by loganca View Post
Unless I'm misinterpreting you, I am pushing the free end of the film onto the Jobo spiral. That's the way Jobo says it should be done and the way I've always seen it demonstrated.

Here's a video from Jobo that shows how they suggest loading film onto a 1501 reel. A film loading demonstration is shown at the 1 minute mark. They're using 120 film but 35mm is done the same way. I'm doing it exactly this way as well.

https://youtu.be/Zsx84OsIW-M
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  #87  
Old 27th May 2022, 08:15 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I use Jobo reels, the 1501 specifically. My method is to feed the film with index finger and thumb into the reel inch by inch. I push an inch or so in from the reel's opening, gently clamp the reel so the film is held, pull the cassette backwards a couple of inches and start again. Usually it will go in all the way by this method but occasionally it will stick. The moment this happens I can feel the film kink against the reel as would we all . When this happens I stop, pull it back slightly and then use my thumb and finger on several layers of film already in the reel and pull on it. Once it moves beyond the sticking point I continue with pushing at the start of the reel as before

Running a soft lead pencil around the reel's grooves after its washing usually works wonders. The graphite really aids the slipperiness of the plastic and since doing this a film rarely sticks. A Richard Gould trick for which I am grateful

If a film rubs against the reel by stopping and kinking then either it frees itself and continues or I revert to the pulling manoeuvre I describe above

What I cannot get my head around is: If it has kinked then how can you get it on the reel anyway and as logan said this is likely to leave a bit of the film undeveloped as it is starved of developer.

This being the case, then as logan says, this should result in a lighter section on the negative and a darker streak on the print, shouldn't it?

So are we not back to square one in terms of a cause for the lighter streaks in the prints ?

A pity you aren't in the U.K. logan. Sending a film to one of us for processing would be a relatively easy thing to do. This problem is a real head-scratcher

Mike
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  #88  
Old 27th May 2022, 10:33 PM
loganca loganca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
My method is to feed the film with index finger and thumb into the reel inch by inch. I push an inch or so in from the reel's opening
I considered it a pushing motion as well, which is why I was unclear about the pushing vs. pulling terminology being used earlier. Regardless of whether we call it "pushing" or "pulling", it sounds like us Jobo users are doing it the same way and the way that Jobo recommends.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
...pull the cassette backwards a couple of inches and start again.
I tried this once or twice as well but I was afraid I'd kink the film as the cassette came up to the reel, so now I just open the cassette and completely remove the film spool before starting to load the film onto the reel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Running a soft lead pencil around the reel's grooves after its washing usually works wonders. The graphite really aids the slipperiness of the plastic and since doing this a film rarely sticks. A Richard Gould trick for which I am grateful
I've heard that one before too. Luckily, I haven't experienced much sticking when loading the Jobo reels, but I'll keep this one in the back of my mind in case I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
So are we not back to square one in terms of a cause for the lighter streaks in the prints ?
It would seem so

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
A pity you aren't in the U.K. logan. Sending a film to one of us for processing would be a relatively easy thing to do. This problem is a real head-scratcher
I'd love to but it's just not practical given I'm in the US. But I appreciate you even considering it.
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  #89  
Old 27th May 2022, 10:58 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by loganca View Post
I'd love to but it's just not practical given I'm in the US. But I appreciate you even considering it.
Most of us here are U.K. or Europe based so, yes , it isn't practical to send it to any of us but there might well be someone on Photrio who can help?

Mike
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  #90  
Old 28th May 2022, 10:36 AM
loganca loganca is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Most of us here are U.K. or Europe based so, yes , it isn't practical to send it to any of us but there might well be someone on Photrio who can help?
One of the moderators on Photrio has kindly offered to help. I'm not sure what having him develop my film will tell me that I don't already know since I've had my film lab developed in the recent past and it came out fine. But I may take him up on his offer if the film I developed today still has issues.

As was suggested earlier in this thread, I went back to HC-110 but used dilution H and developed for 9 minutes with continuous agitation for the first 30 seconds, and then 4 inversions every 30 seconds for the remaining development time. The negatives are drying now and I'll have a good look tomorrow.

Thanks again for everyone's help thus far.
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