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  #1  
Old 26th October 2010, 03:33 PM
TomHayward TomHayward is offline
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Default Terrible (so-called) professional wedding photos

My best friend’s sister got married a few weeks back and she has just received her photographs.

1) The book that the ‘professional’ photographer provided her with doesn’t contain ANY of the photographs she asked for and the photographs that are in there are of insultingly bad quality on awful paper.
2) He is refusing to budge claiming this is what they asked for – it clearly isn’t
3) From my conversation with the bride, the contract was only verbal

What are their rights?

I checked the web-page to view some the 165 photographs taken. I can honestly say without any exaggeration that 85% of them are crap.

I like my father are a fan of the candid photo, but the majority of these are badly cropped, badly composed, and hugely unflattering. There’s even a picture of a cow from a nearby field!! Don’t get me wrong, it’s a handsome cow, but it’s irrelevant to the day in question – A wedding!

I wrote to him myself, advising that I wouldn’t be buying any of them, because frankly they just were not good enough. I got a reply back advising me that the bride and groom were happy with them. I have subsequently sent another email back telling him that the bride and groom are NOT happy with the photographs and that he should contact them and see about producing something acceptable. I am currently awaiting a reply.
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  #2  
Old 26th October 2010, 03:43 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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That is a problem of the so called digital age, complete idiots are buying these things and think they are gods gift to photography, and a way of making easy money, any true profesional photographer would have all the details in written form, and that way there can be no arguement, I do not do Weddings, but I always have a written contract with details of what the client wants, their is always some leeway, but if I turned a lousy set of photographs I wouldn't be working very long, I for one would be very interested to hear how you get along as quite frankly with a verbal contract it is the couples word against his and short of trying to take legal action I am not sure what more you can do,and that won't get the photos of the day, if he sent the best he has I am sorry to say the memories of the day could be gone forever,as he does not have any sort of reputation or anything else to lose. Assuming that payment is not made I would withhold payment until such time as satisfactory photographs are produced, thus forceing the onus on him if he wants to get paid as profit seems to be his only motive,Richard

Last edited by Richard Gould; 26th October 2010 at 03:51 PM. Reason: bit more to say on subject
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  #3  
Old 26th October 2010, 03:54 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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The fact that the contract is a verbal one does not reduce its weight in law. The customer is entitled to goods of a reasonable quality, if they are sub-standard then they are, I believe, entitled to have the pictures reshot at the photographers expense. Tell them to consult a solicitor immediately.
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  #4  
Old 26th October 2010, 04:12 PM
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Paul Mitchell Paul Mitchell is offline
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Sorry to hear about your friends experience I hope they manage to get some recompense... this was in the news only last year http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8293035.stm

Unfortunately I don't think it has anything to do with the medium it's more to do with the skillset (or lack of) of the photographer.
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Old 26th October 2010, 04:42 PM
tlitody tlitody is offline
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What recourse do they have? Depends, If the photographers portfolio is of similar quality then none.
What did they pay? £500 then what do they expect? £2000 then they are paying professional rates and can expect professional results.

Any wedding photographer who is not affiliated to the likes of BIPP, who insist on professional indemnity insurance to protect the clients, is a big risk.

BIPP unlike some of the other "associations" insist and require proof of you working professionally before they will award you one of their titles such as ABIPP or FBIPP. And it is awarded for a particular genre only. So someone who is a wedding photographer has to present wedding photos to get that award. BIPP then have a record of your level of work. In the event of a dispute the client can claim insurance and the insurers will take the photos to BIPP who will assess them compared to what was submitted for the award to the photographer. If they are good enough the client fails in their claim. If they aren't the photographer loses his reputation (if he had one) and the client gets at least some of their money from the insurers.

Long and the short is that client should go either to one of the photographer insurers and ask them for an assesment or to BIPP and do the same. They will probably have to pay if the photographer is not BIPP and/or not insured. But with that assessment they can decide whether to sue or not. But again, if the portfolio they were shown prior to the wedding was of low quality then they have no case and if they only paid £500 then that doesn't even cover a days shooting let alone prints and probably isn't worth the hassle.

The problem arises because people try and cut costs and/or the photographer has conned them. i.e. shown some high quality images in portfolio and then produced cr*p.

In the first instance try to remedy the situation amicably with the photographer but with failure there and if it's worth the hassle, then goto BIPP and ask for advice/assessment. Better to do this before going to law as going to law you will have to do it anyway at solicitors rates.
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Old 26th October 2010, 04:58 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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The problem is the same in Jersey as in the UK, although we have slightly different laws to you and I can only talk from a Jersey perspective, many people get an entry level dslr, a computer,printer and some form of editing software, and set themselves up as pro photographers, one over here was asked by a friend to take a few pics of his wedding, thouht it was easy money, and when caught out said it was his '' arftistic licence'' and after doing his first wedding, with a verbal contract, produced the worst set of photos I had ever seen, but when the couple could,nt get any satisfatiction and sued the guy he could'nt be found, he was gone and there was nothing that could be done, and I would guess you have the same problem over were you are, a verbal contract is enforceable in law, but if he goes bust or drives away then you are left with nothing, and sadly nothing can replace the memories of the wedding day if the photographs do not exist, and it makes it harder for the true professional to convince new clients that he is not a rip off merchant, one reason why I do not touch wedding photography, In Jersey it is harder for these people to get away with it, word very soon gets around in a small Island and they don't last long, but over there they can just drive to a new town and start again,sorry for the rant but this really makes me mad,Richard
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Old 27th October 2010, 08:47 AM
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Steve Smith Steve Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
The fact that the contract is a verbal one does not reduce its weight in law.
Whilst a verbal contract is as legally binding as a written contract, actual detail of what was agreed upon is difficult to prove compared to having it written on paper.

A contract is only of any value when something goes wrong and it is needed to clarify what should have been done or supplied. In the case of an apparent breach of contract, it is easy for one party to give a different account of what was agreed if it was only verbal and without witness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlitody View Post
Better to do this before going to law as going to law you will have to do it anyway at solicitors rates.
The value is likely to be within the scope of small claims court where legal representation is not allowed.

Generally when you hire a lawyer* their fees are going to exceed what you may get if you win the case anyway.

* I have noticed on PhotoNet that whenever someone brings up a case like this or of copyright infingement, someone always says 'talk to a lawyer'. It seems as though Americans cannot do anything without consulting their lawyers or psychiatrists first!


Steve.

Last edited by Steve Smith; 27th October 2010 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 27th October 2010, 08:54 AM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
Whilst a verbal contract is as legally binding as a written contract, actual detail of what was agreed upon is difficult to prove compared to having it written on paper.

A contract is only of any value when something goes wrong and it is needed to clarify what should have been done or supplied. In the case of an apparent breach of contract, it is easy for one party to give a different account of what was agreed if it was only verbal and without witness.


Steve.
I agree, it's always better to confirm an agreement in writing, however in this case I would be quite happy to leave it to a court to decide what is a reasonable expectation from this arrangement. In the UK I suspect that the "sale of goods act" and similar would come into play. A visit to a Citizens Advice office will get a free session with a local solicitor and the opportunity to discuss the problem.
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  #9  
Old 27th October 2010, 09:19 AM
Jeff Worsnop Jeff Worsnop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHayward View Post
My best friend’s sister got married a few weeks back and she has just received her photographs.

1) The book that the ‘professional’ photographer provided her with doesn’t contain ANY of the photographs she asked for and the photographs that are in there are of insultingly bad quality on awful paper.
2) He is refusing to budge claiming this is what they asked for – it clearly isn’t
3) From my conversation with the bride, the contract was only verbal

What are their rights?

I checked the web-page to view some the 165 photographs taken. I can honestly say without any exaggeration that 85% of them are crap.

I like my father are a fan of the candid photo, but the majority of these are badly cropped, badly composed, and hugely unflattering. There’s even a picture of a cow from a nearby field!! Don’t get me wrong, it’s a handsome cow, but it’s irrelevant to the day in question – A wedding!

I wrote to him myself, advising that I wouldn’t be buying any of them, because frankly they just were not good enough. I got a reply back advising me that the bride and groom were happy with them. I have subsequently sent another email back telling him that the bride and groom are NOT happy with the photographs and that he should contact them and see about producing something acceptable. I am currently awaiting a reply.
Quite a common experience I have heard.
A woman I know does weddings (at least did because bookings have dried up - she says it the recession) and has the prints done at Boots. Even the photographs of her grandchildren she has framed and hung on the wall are awful. A trade description problem I think.
When I was a chartered surveyor I got a bit fed up with people who measured windows for double glazing calling themselves surveyors so I'm not surprised people who use snappy snaps call themselves photographers.
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  #10  
Old 27th October 2010, 10:32 AM
TomHayward TomHayward is offline
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Dave, would I be breaking any rules, or laws if I give the gentlemans name on here (in order to prevent anyone else's day being ruined)
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