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Old 11th January 2020, 01:17 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Default Print developing WITHOUT any heat in a cold darkroom

I originally posted this on the end of a thread, but think it deserves it's own, so here we go.

Now this may be of interest to some, who are without heating, for their trays in the darkroom...

I've ventured into making up my own developers, from available formulas, with individual chemicals, as I did when starting out decades ago.

I was recently on the last bit of Ilford's great MG developer and so ordered more with one of the money off offers recently.

But whilst waiting for the order, as I had the chemicals from other experiments, I made up some Kodak D72, from readily available formula, which apparently is quoted as being a Kodak Dektol clone.

Anyway, I had a batch of postcards that I wanted to do, on Ilford RC MG paper, and usually rely on my Nova slot processor, as it gives me a constant temperature. Wanting to only make a little amount of the D72 to check it out, I made up some to fill a 7" x 5" tray. With no extra space to use one of my tray warmers, I mixed the developer up with warm water at 20C.

The session lasted about an hour and the darkroom ambient temperature was about 14C. The only thing being warmed, were my feet with a small fan heater.

It wasn't until the end of the session, after developing a number of prints for 90 seconds each, that I even thought about the temperature of the developer.

At the beginning it was just right, but by the end, when I measured it again, it was now about 15C. Now this is quite a drop in temperature and one would have thought I would have had to adjust / lengthen the time in the developer for the latter prints. But as it hadn't crossed my mind, they were all given the exact same time of 90 seconds each.

Looking at them all, when washed and dried, I could see no difference between the first and the last ones made. They were a decent set of prints and there was a good range of tones from black, black, right though to little amounts of white. I would have thought there should have been SOME difference in the way they looked, even if a very small one, but there wasn't.

So this now makes me wonder how far one can push the temperature down, and not worry about it being exactly 20C, especially if no heating is available and the developer temperature drops by about 5C?

I mention all of this, mostly for people who say their darkrooms are cool to cold at this time of year (like mine) and wondered how to develop prints as they have no heating trays etc..

I hope that this is helpful to some and would love to hear others thoughts about this?

So is D72 on its own, in that its temperature doesn't really affect development time, or could this be done with other developers like my usual Ilford MG dev as well?

Terry S

Last edited by Terry S; 11th January 2020 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:26 PM
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maltklaus maltklaus is offline
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Well, as long as it works... I guess every developer and every paper might be different - depending on dilution you might see a slowdown.... I've been using Moersch 4812 in a 16-17°C darkroom myself without noticing any adverse effects myself.
Will try some homebrewed D72 myself soon.
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:40 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Useful experiment, Terry, and both interesting and helpful. Like you I wonder if there is a set of ingredients for paper developer that is particularly good for lower than normal temperatures or given that the constituents of all developers seem to have some common ingredients would all developers be as good as yours at say 15C?

Based on the occasional thread I have seen on Photrio users there seem to claim that in some developers - I think Rodinal was one - as little as 5C is possible

It makes me wonder about film developers as well. When you look at Ilford's temp/time chart you see it goes down to 14C

Frankly my problem in my old age is one of human body temperature. I am not sure I could stay in a darkroom at 14C for long enough to do anything useful although I could see occasions where there wasn't time to heat the room and say only a couple of prints needed to be done then I might manage it.

Very useful to know that the developer isn't affected at that temperature

Thanks Terry

Mike
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Old 12th January 2020, 10:56 AM
Paulographic Paulographic is offline
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My darkroom is poorly heated in winter, a fan assisted convector heater on the opposite wall to the working area which is to keep the chill off rather than heat the room(a former bedroom used for other purposes too) as I don't like too much warmth when working. My preferred print developer is Bromophen which at it's standard dilution of 1:3 is fats working (reminds me of Ilfospeed) in warm conditions so is OK in cooler ones. In summer or wanting slower developing I sometimes dilute up to 1:5.
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Old 12th January 2020, 02:17 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Coincidentally a pertinent question was asked yesterday on Photrio about whether a heated Nova slot processor was needed for B&W. No mention was made by the OP as to what his expected temperature would be and frankly his interest may have been in Novas rather than whether a heated one was required or not

Anyway I attempted to answer his question on temperature, drawing attention to Terry's experience but it made me do some research into what the range of temperature was either on previous Photrio posts or in makers' instructions I even looked in "Way Beyond Monochrome" and Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course and was surprised by how little I could find

There is some reference to as low as 17C but largely 20C is the only temperature mentioned

There would appear to be very little evidence from either the makers' of print developer or experiments by users on lower temperature use

Perhaps those whose darkroom temp is regularly below 18-20 either take steps to warm up the developer or on a large forum like Photrio can't be bothered to relate their experiences

Mike
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Old 12th January 2020, 03:25 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Your comments have got me curious Mike. And yes, I've also noticed that tables are published for different temperatures for film developer but curiously not for print developers, where the generally accepted temperature is 20C.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but when next free and in the darkroom, I will mix up some more D72 from my ready made stock solution, to use in a small tray again.

I will start it off at about 15C say and put it on a warming tray to allow it to gradually get warmer.

I will then take exposed paper, all given the same grade and exposure etc. and then develop them all individually for exactly the same length of time = 90 seconds, in developer at different temperatures.

I will then report back any differences that I can see.

I think this could be an interesting experiment, although of course it will only tell us about one combination of paper and developer processed at different temperatures, but it's a start.

Terry S
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Old 12th January 2020, 03:32 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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There's a couple of points here, many RC papers while no longer developer incorporated have adjuncts in their emulsion that aid fast processing and also help at lower temperatures.

If the temperature drops below 18ºC the Metol in an MQ developer becomes less active compared to the Hydroquinone this alters the balance of a developer and can affect the tonal range and Dmax, this would be quite apparent with Fibre based papers. It's something I've come across frequently in the past.

Ian
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Old 12th January 2020, 03:48 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Thanks Ian. Some interesting points there.

Terry S
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Old 12th January 2020, 04:00 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post

Based on the occasional thread I have seen on Photrio users there seem to claim that in some developers - I think Rodinal was one - as little as 5C is possible


Thanks Terry

Mike
Developing a print in RODINAL and at 5C!!!! Whoever wrote that originally must be really grasping at straws. (or on an illegal substance). RODINAL is a film developer and would not have the clout to develop a print at 5C even at full strength.
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Old 12th January 2020, 04:36 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John King View Post
Developing a print in RODINAL and at 5C!!!! Whoever wrote that originally must be really grasping at straws. (or on an illegal substance). RODINAL is a film developer and would not have the clout to develop a print at 5C even at full strength.
When Rodinal was first around, which was long before me, it WAS sold and marketed as a Film and print developer, at a much stronger dilution, as to the way it would work, your guess is as good as mine, but in theory there is every reason to believe that paper should develop in a strong dilution of Rodinal, in fact I have seen very old adverts that give Rodinal as both a paper and film developer, I can't for the life of me remember where but it was on the internet, came across the ads while searching for something else, but they were in the early years of the last century, so anything is possible in photography
Richard
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