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  #1  
Old 17th September 2010, 11:02 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Default Legacy Pro 400 Film - Bulk Loader Problem

I bought one of these bulk films several months ago as it is Neopan 400. I hadn't realised until I started loading last night that it is a metal spool and not simply loose film on a core like Ilford.

I have 2 loaders. A Watson and a Telesar which has a flat cover over the film compartment with round plastic disc on top that screws onto the central screw inside the compartment making the whole thing light tight. The Telesar is a little like the AP Bobinquick or Jessops loader

The metal spool makes the roll that little bit thicker and I cannot see how I can get the flat cover to rest in a flat position. It wobbles slightly from the high point of the spool. The round disc will probably screw on but place a strain on a slightly rocking flat cover with the possibility of light leaks.

In the case of the Watson which is 2nd preference the spool's rims seem to be so wide as to prevent the top cup-like cover from fitting inside.

Anybody any ideas? Larry it would appear from a post he has loaded from one of these spools but he doesn't say what loader he used. I have PMed him as he may be the only one here with any experience of Legacy. However he hasn't been seen since mid August so may not answer.

Anyway for those of you who may be contemplating a bulk roll of Legacy be warned that unless you have an accomodating loader you may experience problems.

It turns out that these are daylight movie spools so it sounds as if the somebody who distributes them ( the tin mentions California ) has either spooled Fuji this way without thinking of the consequences or has obtained stock which may never have been intended for standard bulk loading machines.

Thanks

Mike
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  #2  
Old 18th September 2010, 04:20 PM
Keith Cocker Keith Cocker is offline
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It is a bit of a surprise to find the metal reel but I have this film in the 100 & 400 versions and it goes in my AP loader no problem. I also have a Lloyds loader which is equally suitable.
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  #3  
Old 19th September 2010, 02:10 PM
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Larry Larry is offline
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HI everyone and MIKE,

I'm back, had problems with my internet service, hence no recent postings. Got me finger out and changed ISP, now have a fantastic connection, 8x speed improvement and very reliable.

Sorry to hear of your problem Mike,

I use an AP Bobinquick-135 Junior Bulk loader which I bought about 15 years ago so I don't know if the design has changed over the years.

When you open the legacypro film can the reel is held together with a metal real like a cine-spool with a centre hole on the middle.

To unwrap the film you remove the black paper from the reel and un-peel the sticky label holding the film tight.

I remove the AP loader round plastic back held with a screw and inserted the tail end of the film reel through the guide lips of the loader. The bulk roll already has a trimmed leader to assist entry.

I pulled out about 12-inches worth of film and gently push the leader onto the racket to engage the counter knob which I turn to drive the film through the gate.

Once film-leader has engaged I wrap the excess length back onto the reel and insert it into the loader on the central spindle.

Re-attach the loader round plastic back and turn the big screw knob until tight and then with a phillips screwdriver tighten the centre screw to secure locking.

Fits perfectly, if anything a better load than ilford film. Very secure.

*

Thanks Larry. I did all this but with a Telesar loader! There's the rub. The metal spool must fit inside some loaders and not others.
Let me try and give the set up and then the vital question. The Telesar is rectangular shaped like the AP. On the film entry side it has a flat plastic rectangular plate that fits the shape. The plate sits on a small ledge about 3-4 mms down inside the open side this forming the light trap. This plate has a hole where you can see the central screw fixed to the bottom A round plastic disc with a female thread is screwed onto the central screw and completes the light-tightness.

The Legacy metal spool will be wider than the Ilford roll. The extra width is the thickness of the two rims of the spool.This extra width that seems to prevent the flat plate from lying flat. The plate kind of wobbles on top of the spool and while the disc with female screw would probably attach to the screw and hold the flat plate it won't rest on its ledge so there might be a light leak.

So the question. Do you have an empty reel to measure its width across the two rims? Alternatively would it be too much trouble to unspool the roll, then measure the depth of the film compartment in the AP?

My compartment in the Telesar gives me 40mm free space. So that's is 5mm free space with an Ilford roll but if the two rims of the Legacy spool add more than 5mm then I am in trouble.
It might just be that the Telesar was made at a time when bulk film wasn't in spools and the AP which is still made today has been designed around the need to leave extra space for spooled bulk film.

Thanks for any further help you are able to give

*

Hello Mike

The empty Fuji/LegacyPro bulk spool is 36mm depth and 92mm across overall width.

My AP loader has a centre spindle depth of 42mm and an overall depth of 50mm and a capacity to accommodate a bulk reel of width of 96mm total width for a nice flush fit when you put the cover on. So you can see my loader is quite roomy!

cheers
Larry

(Hope you didn't mind me posting our P-Emails but I thought it might be useful to share our experiences with other users).
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Old 24th September 2010, 05:04 PM
BobRob BobRob is offline
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I have legacy pro 400 in a watson model 66b loader
and it runs with no problems at all.

I like this film a lot and will soon need another roll.

bob robertson.
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Old 26th September 2010, 10:31 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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I have been away for a few days so unable to respond but thanks for all answers.

Pity I was away as before I went I spotted a Jessops loader on e-bay and asked for its film compartment measurements which I intended to compare with Larry's to be sure although I did think the Jessops was in fact an AP by any other name and so it turned out to be when I was able to compare the measurements tonight

However my absence from a computer resulted in my missing the auction's end but at least now I know that a Jessops or AP loader will do the trick.

Interestingly the difference between the two measurements( my Telesar and the AP) is only 2mm(40mm v 42mm) but it's the crucial difference between success and failure.

The good news is that I now at least have three options:

1. Buy a Jessops, AP or Lloyds
2. Try and grind 2mm from the ribs inside my Telesar.
3. Use a Watson - Yes I have since discovered by messing about for a long time in the dark that the Watson will just about accept the Legacy spool. It is very tight but does fit as Bob has said.

Mind you compared with the AP or Telesar, if I can modify it, the Watson is hard work and doesn't give a reading on how much film is left on the spool.

Anyway thanks again to all on FADU for such help which is always specific and thorough.

Mike
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Old 30th September 2010, 07:16 PM
Ben H Ben H is offline
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Thinking back, I had problems with a roll of legacy pro in a watson bulk loader, the metal tags that hold the spool together I think where catching on the ribs in the back of the loader and making it jam. I had to put a washer under the spool to lift it up a little.

There was a lot cursing in the darkroom that evening!
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Old 11th November 2010, 09:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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OK time for another follow-up. Anyone thinking of getting a Telesar and there may be no-one here on FADU with such a thought, should be aware of the bad and good news.

The bad news is that the Telesar's film box is too narrow to take the Legacy film's metal spool.

The good news is that the compartment has spokes on the light tight lid which can be ground down to enable the metal spool to fit. This makes about 2mm difference which is just enough to enable the metal spool to fit and run so film can be pulled through to load into cassettes.

I had mine ground down in a milling machine with no ill efects on its structure and strength.

So if you see a Telesar and they are good loaders with accurate frame counters then provided you are prepared to ground down the spokes flat they will then accept Legacy spools.

So that's another thread put to bed.

Mike
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Old 12th November 2010, 08:54 AM
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wiesmier wiesmier is offline
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Legacy film is gone so no worries really :-(
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  #9  
Old 12th November 2010, 07:23 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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True but last time I looked Digital Truth still has some LP 100 and we maybe shouldn't assume that the circumstances which lead to Fuji film appearing on metal spools and called Legacy won't arise again in the future.

Does any other film makers load bulk film onto metal reels? There would appear to be certain advantages in terms of protection and I think free running of the roll.

Mike
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