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Old 22nd March 2020, 12:08 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Multigrade 4 and 5 comparisons

I have made two prints from the same negative which was using FP4+ 35mm film. The negative was more or less enlarged to A4 size The filtration on both was grade 3 on an LPL7700 enlarger with a colour head using the MG dual filter setting of 33y 56M for both prints which were developed in MG developer.

The exposure for the MG4 print was 51.5 seconds with the enlarging lens adjusted to F8. Developed at 68F for 90 seconds

The Multigrade 5 print was exposed for 40 seconds & Developed for the same time.

No dodging/burning was done on either print. The print with MG5 is also a pure neutral black/grey whilst the MG4 is quite warm in comparison. Possibly if I had gone up a grade with the MG4 the same result would have been more or less the same, but the exposure time, much longer.

It is more obvious in the originals the tonal separation of the mid greys especially on the rails (bottom right) is far better with G5. Likewise the blacks on the front of the locomotive boiler are more pronounced possibly a little more than I would have liked. (Am I being picky?) The most improved part is the contrast of the brickwork on the signal cabin which is far better.
The tone of the little bit of sky at the top is the same in both prints.

For me MG5 has it. With at least 20 years between changes as good as this, is well worth the wait. I did a smaller print of a portion of the same negative using Kentmere 'old' fibre based and the result is...…. well not as good as the MG5
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Last edited by John King; 22nd March 2020 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 12:27 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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As you say John, things are probably more noticeable in the actual prints, when laid side by side, but looking at the scans, I definitely prefer the MG5 print.

You've done well to try and get both of the prints to look as close as possible the same, exposure wise, but I think the print on MG5 has had just a tad more exposure. I'm basing this on the very tiny bit of pavement on the print bottom left, but either way, the MG5 print does have a little bit more contrast, which I like, with any black areas looking a deeper black as well. For that is something I was rarely happy with when using MG4, getting solid blacks to look, well, solid black, without over doing all of the other tones.

I've only just started to use my new box of MG5, with no MG4 left to compare directly to, but I do have copies of prints and printing notes for prints made for Print Exchanges on here, so I might too, try to do a comparison.

Everything I've read about the new MG5 has been positive, so well done Ilford!

Terry S
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Old 22nd March 2020, 12:46 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default MG4 v MG5

Terry, The initial exposure was made with the piece of paper place over the dark walkway between the cabin windows. I made two test strips, one for each variation of paper which surprised me how much less exposure was needed for MG5. Your comment about the stone at the B/right corner, I think that is far more accurate than in the MG4 version which looks insipid with little variation or texture in the shade of grey.

In practise, if I was making a large print, the front and side of the locomotive would have been dodged with aroubnd 5 seconds less exposure. Everywhere else has detail in the shadows and I would not change it. The variation of shades in the brickwork on the cabin are truly amazing.

I have a sneaking feeling that I may very well have to modify my film exposure/developing to cut down the contrast in brightly lit scenes.

(For locomotive buffs, the engine was a class 9F, not long out of the workshops after a full restoration on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway.)

Last edited by John King; 22nd March 2020 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 02:47 PM
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billcowan billcowan is offline
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I arranged the prints to show side by side on my screen and my impression would be that the MG5 is contrastier at a given grade. My feeling would be to look at prints which are one or one half grade different. But it is all good, eh!
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Old 22nd March 2020, 05:38 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billcowan View Post
I arranged the prints to show side by side on my screen and my impression would be that the MG5 is contrastier at a given grade. My feeling would be to look at prints which are one or one half grade different. But it is all good, eh!
Absolutely with a true black as well. On Photrio, apparently the amount of silver has been increased in the emulsion which gives the improvement.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 05:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Good work, John. The engine and the brickwork so it for me. I probably would not thought either bad on the MGIV but it is as if the engine has an extra deep shine to it and the brickwork has had a slight layer of dust washed off it i.e. it look as if the engine and signal shed brickwork has been both washed and then polished

On this basis the paper is a real improvement

Mike
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Old 22nd March 2020, 10:04 PM
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billcowan billcowan is offline
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As far as I can tell both have a true black in the areas at the bottom of the engine, but there is far more detail in the MG4 print; see the black rectangle at the bumper on the front of the engine and the circular band on the top of the wheel. Which is to say the MG4 print is of lower contrast and has more mid tones and the MG5 print has sacrificed greys up to tone 3 which go to black. (on my monitor). I would still like to see a grade 2 print on MG5 as a comparison.
Not saying which is a better print at all by the way just comparing tone distribution.
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Old 22nd March 2020, 10:35 PM
John King John King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billcowan View Post
As far as I can tell both have a true black in the areas at the bottom of the engine, but there is far more detail in the MG4 print; see the black rectangle at the bumper on the front of the engine and the circular band on the top of the wheel. Which is to say the MG4 print is of lower contrast and has more mid tones and the MG5 print has sacrificed greys up to tone 3 which go to black. (on my monitor). I would still like to see a grade 2 print on MG5 as a comparison.
Not saying which is a better print at all by the way just comparing tone distribution.
The scan will not show the true values compared to seeing them in hard copy. I have already said the section with the engine front I would have given slightly less exposure if it were for a large print but as a comparison I chose not to make and printing exposure adjustment just to show the different tones. The main benefit for me are shorter exposure times (around 20%) and for a given filter value better contrast. The MG4 paper compared to MG 5 does not have a true black, it is a very dark shade of grey possibly because it is a warm tone. The MG5 is very similar to Kentmere Fibre MG
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Old 23rd March 2020, 01:59 AM
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Rightyoh. Sadly I have a refrigerator full of paper so it will be a while until I get to buy MG5. But I will look forward to it.
Thanks for your posts.
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Old 25th March 2020, 04:23 PM
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Can anyone comparing the two comment on base thickness? There are users' reports saying V is thinner.
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